28mm copper pipe instalation?? Commercial plumbing

[Ecoplumbing]

Can anyone help??!!!
Been asked to carry out a cold water mains installation to serve a fire hose from an existing copper pipe in a factory. The pipework will need to run 16m horizontally then drop 8m vertically. The pipe will be 28mm copper. my issue is will this length of pipework be affected with expansion, ie does it matter if compression fittings are used?
Also what is the best way of clamping the pipe to a steel support beam ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

is the fire hose on a separate fire circuit ? or is it just on the water main?

 

[Chalked]

Why compression????
Solder fittings much more reliable. Or hire a copper press fit gun and do it in press fit. Would be cheaper than compression. Even adding in the hire cost.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Why compression????
Solder fittings much more reliable. Or hire a copper press fit gun and do it in press fit. Would be cheaper than compression. Even adding in the hire cost.

im guessing no hot works

 

[Ecoplumbing]

It's mains fed as far as I'm aware

 

[Ecoplumbing]

It's in a paper mill, hot works can be done but there'll be a lot of risk assessments to fill in!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It's mains fed as far as I'm aware

right couple of pointers

get approval from the water supplier / board first as sometimes they class fire reels as cat 5

but what are you doing about backflow prevention ? if its class as 3/4

i wouldn't worry about expansion at that length its not going to be much 25mm at most (more like 10mm)

you have a few options depending on what steel beam you have

M10 Vertical Flange (1-5mm) Threaded Rod Hanger

Flange Clamps Lindapter & BTS

Heavy Duty Beam Clamp ( Pair)

25-30mm Surefix XL Rubber Lined Pipe Clamp -

i would press fit tbh

geberit 28mm press fit fittings

Copper | Pipekit

and you can hire the tool for about £150 a week (£ 40 a day) roughly

 

[Ecoplumbing]

right couple of poin

right couple of pointers

get approval from the water supplier / board first as sometimes they class fire reels as cat 5

but what are you doing about backflow prevention ? if its class as 3/4

i wouldn't worry about expansion at that length its not going to be much 25mm at most (more like 10mm)

you have a few options depending on what steel beam you have

M10 Vertical Flange (1-5mm) Threaded Rod Hanger

Flange Clamps Lindapter & BTS

Heavy Duty Beam Clamp ( Pair)

25-30mm Surefix XL Rubber Lined Pipe Clamp -

i would press fit tbh

geberit 28mm press fit fittings

Copper | Pipekit

and you can hire the tool for about £150 a week (£ 40 a day) roughly

ters

get approval from the water supplier / board first as sometimes they class fire reels as cat 5

but what are you doing about backflow prevention ? if its class as 3/4

i wouldn't worry about expansion at that length its not going to be much 25mm at most (more like 10mm)

you have a few options depending on what steel beam you have

M10 Vertical Flange (1-5mm) Threaded Rod Hanger

Flange Clamps Lindapter & BTS

Heavy Duty Beam Clamp ( Pair)

25-30mm Surefix XL Rubber Lined Pipe Clamp -

i would press fit tbh

geberit 28mm press fit fittings

Copper | Pipekit

and you can hire the tool for about £150 a week (£ 40 a day) roughly

 

[Ecoplumbing]

Thanks. I'll look into it. I was going to put a double check valve on as close to the hose as possible. Press fit sounds like a good option , I've not done much commercial work before and certainly not installed a 16m run so was unsure about the expansion. Think that's helped me out a lot anyway

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks. I'll look into it. I was going to put a double check valve on as close to the hose as possible. Press fit sounds like a good option , I've not done much commercial work before and certainly not installed a 16m run so was unsure about the expansion. Think that's helped me out a lot anyway

double check would be ok if the water board classed it as cat 3

cat 4 would need a rpz valve

or 5 a break tank

tbh i think they would class it as cat 4

but what ever they decide get it in writing

 

[Ecoplumbing]

There's 3 other hoses already on the system that have check valves on so was just going to copy those. I'll definitely look into what cat they are though so nothing comes back on me. Thanks again

 

[ShaunCorbs]

There's 3 other hoses already on the system that have check valves on so was just going to copy those. I'll definitely look into what cat they are though so nothing comes back on me. Thanks again

fair enough there not on there own circuit are they ?

also dont forget to lag it

either foil insulation or armaflex

Armaflex Insulation, Knauf Pipe Insulation and Rockwool Pipe Lagging PipeLagging.com

 

[Ecoplumbing]

No, they're all on the same system, the customer just wants another hose connection adding to it . Definitely be lagging it though

 

[Gareth Harris]

Thanks. I'll look into it. I was going to put a double check valve on as close to the hose as possible. Press fit sounds like a good option , I've not done much commercial work before and certainly not installed a 16m run so was unsure about the expansion. Think that's helped me out a lot anyway

Don't just copy what's there as you may fall foul as pointed out by @ShaunCorbs

Another good point raised is that this work needs to be notified to the Water Supplier, and they will also assist in identifying the correct backflow prevention to install.

You also need to consider stagnation in the pipe to the shower hose, so may also require a single check valve where it tees off the main.

good luck!

 

[Ecoplumbing]

Don't just copy what's there as you may fall foul as pointed out by @ShaunCorbs

Another good point raised is that this work needs to be notified to the Water Supplier, and they will also assist in identifying the correct backflow prevention to install.

You also need to consider stagnation in the pipe to the shower hose, so may also require a single check valve where it tees off the main.

good luck!

I'm still awaiting for the job to be accepted so I'll definitely be in touch with the water board if I get the job . Thanks for all your advice

 

[Gareth Harris]

I'm still awaiting for the job to be accepted so I'll definitely be in touch with the water board if I get the job . Thanks for all your advice

No Problem. You need to speak to the Water Regs department. as you haven't stated who the water supplier is contact details for all can be found here: WRAS Water Company Contacts

Better to do it once and get it right than have to go back!

 

[Ecoplumbing]

Yes, I don't fancy going back once it's done . Most of the pipework is suspended 8m high so I don't fancy paying for access twice !

 

[Whale]

what are you using for access??? ☺☺☺

 

[ShaunCorbs]

what are you using for access??? ☺☺☺

Would think scaf or scissor

 

[Whale]

i'd go scissor lift personally

 

[ShaunCorbs]

i'd go scissor lift personally

Depends on access on site and there not cheap

 

[Whale]

8 meters on a tower too scary for me
iv always spoiled myself with scissor booms and my new favourite and star 10 but I don't know what it is wired boom lift thing just my 2p worth

 

[Ecoplumbing]

8 meters on a tower too scary for me
iv always spoiled myself with scissor booms and my new favourite and star 10 but I don't know what it is wired boom lift thing just my 2p worth

Going for a boom lift just because scissor lift won't reach some areas. Only ever used a scissor lift in the past so let's see how it goes !

 

[Whale]

might be worth doing an ipaf course if you havent done one. a lot of the place we work won't let us use them in till we show the out ipaf cards

 

[Ecoplumbing]

The company I'm carrying out the work for has a guy who's fully trained so he'll be operating it , It's rare I do much big commercial work tbh but looking forward to this one. Makes a nice change from the usual domestic stuff

 

[Starky]

right couple of pointers

get approval from the water supplier / board first as sometimes they class fire reels as cat 5

but what are you doing about backflow prevention ? if its class as 3/4

i wouldn't worry about expansion at that length its not going to be much 25mm at most (more like 10mm)

you have a few options depending on what steel beam you have

M10 Vertical Flange (1-5mm) Threaded Rod Hanger

Flange Clamps Lindapter & BTS

Heavy Duty Beam Clamp ( Pair)

25-30mm Surefix XL Rubber Lined Pipe Clamp -

i would press fit tbh

geberit 28mm press fit fittings

Copper | Pipekit

and you can hire the tool for about £150 a week (£ 40 a day) roughly

Sorry for going slightly off topic but why would exspansion be an issue if its mains cold water that won't be heated?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sorry for going slightly off topic but why would exspansion be an issue if its mains cold water that won't be heated?

thermal the water wont stay at the same temp all the time so you have to allow for this

 

[Ecoplumbing]

Yes, winter and summer months room temperature will be very different. That's why I asked. Some very knowledgeable people here, nice that they help each out

 

[Starky]

Hi ecoplumbing, it does seem like a nice place here.

How would you allow for the exspansion? Going a pipe size up or vessel?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Hi ecoplumbing, it does seem like a nice place here.

How would you allow for the exspansion? Going a pipe size up or vessel?

TBH I wouldn't allow for it, just make sure you don't put a clip straight after (within 1 foot) a elbow

Anything over an 1" I would allow for

 

[Starky]

Shauncorbs. Thanks for your reply on this thread and others. You have been great help.

What is the reason for putting a clip 1ft after the first elbow. Would it cause the pipe to fracture the clip.

I don't think I'll come across this scenario as I don't do commercial plumbing. But it's all way good to know.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Shauncorbs. Thanks for your reply on this thread and others. You have been great help.

What is the reason for putting a clip 1ft after the first elbow. Would it cause the pipe to fracture the clip.

I don't think I'll come across this scenario as I don't do commercial plumbing. But it's all way good to know.

To allow some expansion (can move 5mm)