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Ecoplumbing

Can anyone help??!!!
Been asked to carry out a cold water mains installation to serve a fire hose from an existing copper pipe in a factory. The pipework will need to run 16m horizontally then drop 8m vertically. The pipe will be 28mm copper. my issue is will this length of pipework be affected with expansion, ie does it matter if compression fittings are used?
Also what is the best way of clamping the pipe to a steel support beam ?
 
is the fire hose on a separate fire circuit ? or is it just on the water main?
 
Why compression????
Solder fittings much more reliable. Or hire a copper press fit gun and do it in press fit. Would be cheaper than compression. Even adding in the hire cost.
 
Why compression????
Solder fittings much more reliable. Or hire a copper press fit gun and do it in press fit. Would be cheaper than compression. Even adding in the hire cost.

im guessing no hot works
 
It's in a paper mill, hot works can be done but there'll be a lot of risk assessments to fill in!
 
It's mains fed as far as I'm aware

right couple of pointers

get approval from the water supplier / board first as sometimes they class fire reels as cat 5

but what are you doing about backflow prevention ? if its class as 3/4

i wouldn't worry about expansion at that length its not going to be much 25mm at most (more like 10mm)

you have a few options depending on what steel beam you have

M10 Vertical Flange (1-5mm) Threaded Rod Hanger

Flange Clamps Lindapter & BTS

Heavy Duty Beam Clamp ( Pair)

25-30mm Surefix XL Rubber Lined Pipe Clamp -

i would press fit tbh

geberit 28mm press fit fittings

Copper | Pipekit

and you can hire the tool for about £150 a week (£ 40 a day) roughly
 
right couple of poin
right couple of pointers

get approval from the water supplier / board first as sometimes they class fire reels as cat 5

but what are you doing about backflow prevention ? if its class as 3/4

i wouldn't worry about expansion at that length its not going to be much 25mm at most (more like 10mm)

you have a few options depending on what steel beam you have

M10 Vertical Flange (1-5mm) Threaded Rod Hanger

Flange Clamps Lindapter & BTS

Heavy Duty Beam Clamp ( Pair)

25-30mm Surefix XL Rubber Lined Pipe Clamp -

i would press fit tbh

geberit 28mm press fit fittings

Copper | Pipekit

and you can hire the tool for about £150 a week (£ 40 a day) roughly

ters

get approval from the water supplier / board first as sometimes they class fire reels as cat 5

but what are you doing about backflow prevention ? if its class as 3/4

i wouldn't worry about expansion at that length its not going to be much 25mm at most (more like 10mm)

you have a few options depending on what steel beam you have

M10 Vertical Flange (1-5mm) Threaded Rod Hanger

Flange Clamps Lindapter & BTS

Heavy Duty Beam Clamp ( Pair)

25-30mm Surefix XL Rubber Lined Pipe Clamp -

i would press fit tbh

geberit 28mm press fit fittings

Copper | Pipekit

and you can hire the tool for about £150 a week (£ 40 a day) roughly
 
Thanks. I'll look into it. I was going to put a double check valve on as close to the hose as possible. Press fit sounds like a good option , I've not done much commercial work before and certainly not installed a 16m run so was unsure about the expansion. Think that's helped me out a lot anyway
 
Thanks. I'll look into it. I was going to put a double check valve on as close to the hose as possible. Press fit sounds like a good option , I've not done much commercial work before and certainly not installed a 16m run so was unsure about the expansion. Think that's helped me out a lot anyway

double check would be ok if the water board classed it as cat 3

cat 4 would need a rpz valve

or 5 a break tank

tbh i think they would class it as cat 4

but what ever they decide get it in writing
 
There's 3 other hoses already on the system that have check valves on so was just going to copy those. I'll definitely look into what cat they are though so nothing comes back on me. Thanks again
 
No, they're all on the same system, the customer just wants another hose connection adding to it . Definitely be lagging it though
 
Thanks. I'll look into it. I was going to put a double check valve on as close to the hose as possible. Press fit sounds like a good option , I've not done much commercial work before and certainly not installed a 16m run so was unsure about the expansion. Think that's helped me out a lot anyway

Don't just copy what's there as you may fall foul as pointed out by @ShaunCorbs

Another good point raised is that this work needs to be notified to the Water Supplier, and they will also assist in identifying the correct backflow prevention to install.

You also need to consider stagnation in the pipe to the shower hose, so may also require a single check valve where it tees off the main.

good luck!
 
Don't just copy what's there as you may fall foul as pointed out by @ShaunCorbs

Another good point raised is that this work needs to be notified to the Water Supplier, and they will also assist in identifying the correct backflow prevention to install.

You also need to consider stagnation in the pipe to the shower hose, so may also require a single check valve where it tees off the main.

good luck!
I'm still awaiting for the job to be accepted so I'll definitely be in touch with the water board if I get the job . Thanks for all your advice
 
Yes, I don't fancy going back once it's done . Most of the pipework is suspended 8m high so I don't fancy paying for access twice !
 
8 meters on a tower too scary for me
iv always spoiled myself with scissor booms and my new favourite and star 10 but I don't know what it is wired boom lift thing just my 2p worth
 
8 meters on a tower too scary for me
iv always spoiled myself with scissor booms and my new favourite and star 10 but I don't know what it is wired boom lift thing just my 2p worth

Going for a boom lift just because scissor lift won't reach some areas. Only ever used a scissor lift in the past so let's see how it goes !
 
might be worth doing an ipaf course if you havent done one. a lot of the place we work won't let us use them in till we show the out ipaf cards
 
The company I'm carrying out the work for has a guy who's fully trained so he'll be operating it , It's rare I do much big commercial work tbh but looking forward to this one. Makes a nice change from the usual domestic stuff
 
right couple of pointers

get approval from the water supplier / board first as sometimes they class fire reels as cat 5

but what are you doing about backflow prevention ? if its class as 3/4

i wouldn't worry about expansion at that length its not going to be much 25mm at most (more like 10mm)

you have a few options depending on what steel beam you have

M10 Vertical Flange (1-5mm) Threaded Rod Hanger

Flange Clamps Lindapter & BTS

Heavy Duty Beam Clamp ( Pair)

25-30mm Surefix XL Rubber Lined Pipe Clamp -

i would press fit tbh

geberit 28mm press fit fittings

Copper | Pipekit

and you can hire the tool for about £150 a week (£ 40 a day) roughly


Sorry for going slightly off topic but why would exspansion be an issue if its mains cold water that won't be heated?
 
Sorry for going slightly off topic but why would exspansion be an issue if its mains cold water that won't be heated?

thermal the water wont stay at the same temp all the time so you have to allow for this
 
Yes, winter and summer months room temperature will be very different. That's why I asked. Some very knowledgeable people here, nice that they help each out
 
Hi ecoplumbing, it does seem like a nice place here.

How would you allow for the exspansion? Going a pipe size up or vessel?
 
Hi ecoplumbing, it does seem like a nice place here.

How would you allow for the exspansion? Going a pipe size up or vessel?

TBH I wouldn't allow for it, just make sure you don't put a clip straight after (within 1 foot) a elbow

Anything over an 1" I would allow for
 
Shauncorbs. Thanks for your reply on this thread and others. You have been great help.

What is the reason for putting a clip 1ft after the first elbow. Would it cause the pipe to fracture the clip.

I don't think I'll come across this scenario as I don't do commercial plumbing. But it's all way good to know.
 
Shauncorbs. Thanks for your reply on this thread and others. You have been great help.

What is the reason for putting a clip 1ft after the first elbow. Would it cause the pipe to fracture the clip.

I don't think I'll come across this scenario as I don't do commercial plumbing. But it's all way good to know.

To allow some expansion (can move 5mm)
 
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