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Hi all,

I've done some searching and have seen that this topic has come up before, but not for a couple of years so I wondered if anything has changed.

My boiler is an old Worcester 24cdi rsf that (before anyone says it!) is probably well due for replacement. However, we are half-way through an extension and due to some pretty large (and expensive!) problems with the ground works, will be strapped for cash to get it completed. I know the ideal situation will be an unvented cylinder and system boiler.

The boiler is currently situated in the loft on the gable end of the property, and vents out into where the new extension will sit, so presents us an issue with the flue. I have looked into a vertical flue and just leaving it where it is, which could be an option, however I would rather just wait and do it properly when we have the funds.

My question is......Can I move the existing boiler to the new gable end of the house, with a view of changing it in 12-18 months? Will it be a new installation in the eyes of gas safe, and will our plumber be able to register it? He is looking into it himself and I won't be doing any work myself either.

Cheers

Stuart
 
This seems like a crazy idea to me. Whatever the legal answer is (I suspect it is "no" but I'm not sure) it would be complete waste of time and money to move an old boiler knowing you intend to replace it in '12-18 months'.

In any case, the chance of moving a boiler that old safely and without damaging it must be close to zero. I can't say for certain becaue I don't know anyone daft enough to have tried it...
 
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Caveat - I'm not a gas installer so I may be wrong.

I think that you can move a boiler within the existing property and it won't matter that it doesn't meet the new efficiency standards. So the fact that it isn't condensing won't matter. Perhaps it isn't classed as a new installation and that's why?

But the work still needs to be carried out by a registered Gas-Safe installer and needs to meet the same standards it needed to meet when it was originally installed. If your plumber isn't a registered 'Gas-Safe' installer, he can't legally move it.

The fact that you intend to replace it in a year is of no concern whatsoever. There is no allowance for a 'temporary' non-compliant installation and, in construction, a year isn't really considered temporary anyway.

No doubt the RGIs will be on soon to agree or disagree with me and add detail.
 
Hello Stuart2017,

I am almost certain that what Member Ric2013 wrote is correct regarding that there is no Gas Safety Regulation - Energy Efficiency stipulation or Building Regulation to prevent You having your existing Non Condensing Boiler moved to another location within your property.

With regard to Registering the installation of Gas Appliances - this is primarily to ensure that NEW Appliances - including Condensing Boilers are installed correctly / safely by only Gas Safe registered Gas Engineers / Installers - adhering to the applicable Gas Safety Regulations / Energy Efficiency appliance rating stipulations / Manufacturers Installation Instructions and Building Regulations.

In MY opinion - although moving your Gas Boiler to a new position within your property would still have to be carried out by a Gas Safe registered Installer - adhering to all of the Regulations that I mentioned above - except for the Energy Efficiency appliance rating stipulation - it would not require `Notification` to Gas Safe as it is not a New Gas Appliance installation.

However - to ensure that You don`t break any Regulations you must contact Gas Safe to confirm whether Member Ric2013 and Myself are correct about this or not.

As this proposed situation may prompt different opinions from even the Gas Safe Technical Advisors - and because in the past I have received conflicting `regulations information` from both CORGI and Gas Safe Technical departments about `unusual scenarios` - I would advise that You make 2 calls to Gas Safe Technical - speaking to different `Technical Advisors` just to confirm that what you are told is the same from each person:

Telephone Gas Safe: 0800 408 5577 - answered by automated switchboard - select option for Technical advice.

Or - you night want to try to obtain an answer via Email - obviously that would be preferable because you would then have written confirmation / proof:

technical@User PlumbersForums.net Instead - Copy the content, don't link to it.co.uk

enquiries@User PlumbersForums.net Instead - Copy the content, don't link to it.co.uk

The second Email address is probably just for the Admin Office regarding Gas Safe Register but they would probably be able to redirect it to the Technical department if necessary.

If You do obtain confirmation from Gas Safe that you can relocate your Home`s Gas Boiler I would strongly advise that you obtain a dated Invoice from the Installer which describes the work as `Relocating existing Non Condensing Gas Boiler [insert Boiler details] because of Building works` or similar wording.

I would also obtain a Gas Safety Check certificate for the Boiler / your Home from the Boiler Installer - dated on the day that the existing Boiler is recommissioned in its new location - which details something similar to: `Existing Non Condensing Boiler [insert Boiler details] relocated within property because of Building works`.

Mention to the Boiler Installer that You definitely require a detailed Invoice and a Gas Safety Check certificate before you give them the job - I have too often read / heard about Gas Installers who do NOT produce those items as a matter of course to their Customers.

I hope that I am correct in what I have written - could You please post an update after you speak to Gas Safe - it would be useful to future readers of this thread.

Chris
 
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i would say if you can still get the flue parts then its fine

but i dont think you will be able to get flue parts
 
Hello rpm,

I take it that You are referring to Me - I have been a Registered Gas Engineer for 44 Years - [Plumber for 52 Years since start of apprenticeship]

From 1973 to 1991 on the CORGI Voluntary Register.

From 1991 to 2009 on the CORGI Register.

From 2009 to 2017 on the Gas Safe Register.

I would have thought that it should be obvious to Gas Safe Engineer Members from what I write in my few posts relating to Gas threads that I know what I am commenting about ?

I am fairly sure that I could determine from messages written by someone who is not experienced in working with Gas whether they were correct in their comments / were experienced in working with Gas.

When I do comment on Gas threads I would try not to give information which would help a Non Gas Safe person to actually carry out any Gas work - but posting replies containing `information` such as my message above are surely not contravening any `Forum Rules` ?

I don`t choose to identify myself on the Forum by providing my Gas Safe registration number / scanned copy of my Gas Safe card / Certificate - whatever Identifying process is required to get the `GSR` Badge.

IF I am instructed by a Moderator to NOT respond to ANY thread that is about `Gas` I will adhere to that `Ruling`.

However without wanting to seem in any way arrogant I feel that my replies / messages do add in a small way to the Forum`s reference material for future readers ?

Chris
 
It will be hard to find a GSR that will be willing to move it for you in my honest opinion. It is not illegal from what I was told but you are asking the engineer to sign off a 14 year old boiler as new really. Also Boilers do not like to be moved! If I am honest I would put your building work on hold a month and fit a new boiler.
 
Hello All,

Although I would not really encourage people to have old Boilers moved - I have moved quite a few in my working life - almost all of them for exactly the same reason that Stuart2017 / the OP has asked about - and a couple to make room for new Kitchens wall units to be fitted.

All of the Boilers that I have moved were done before Condensing Boilers were introduced and Spares were available - including Flue components.

As Member Shaun advised - one must try to ensure that Flue components are available before deciding that a Boiler can be relocated as damage can occur when removing the Flue or Gaskets etc. - and Seals can be found to have `perished` / degraded when the Flue is disassembled.

Without being able to replace a Part / Gasket the Boiler would be useless when removed from its existing position and could not even be put back.

Unless previously `warned` about the possibility of this happening and getting their agreement to go ahead with this risk you could end up with a very unhappy Customer who would then have to buy a new Boiler.

If moved successfully You would not be `signing off an old Boiler` in any other way than that You had correctly reinstalled it.

However - in this case as others have stated - I would also advise trying to find the money to install a NEW Boiler in the new position.

Chris
 
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Assuming flue components are available and regulations/MIs allow, I don't understnad the OP's objection to leaving the boiler where it is and a vertical flue.

The OP claims this option has been looked into but 'would rather just wait and do it properly when we have the funds'. OP: what do you mean by this as I don't follow?
 
Hello rpm,

I take it that You are referring to Me ......................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Chris
o_O
Err, nope. Just a general comment on an open forum re a gas related question that a DIYer might consider doing. Guess I hit a nerve though going by your signature essays it created - sorry about that. :(
 
I'm not offended, and in any case, I never suggested the OP should do the work himself - no one has said that.
 
Good and argree Ric however it is dangerous territory gas stuff.
 
I would have thought that the cost (If available) of converting to a vertical flue system, would be around half the price of a new boiler, (Boiler only) & (Depending what make) some quite cost effective boilers on the market with 5 year warranty's
 
Hi all,

Thanks a lot for all the replies and especially Chris for that level of detail, it is really appreciated.

As an update, I have spoken to two different advisors at gas safe and got the same answer that the boiler can be moved within the boundaries of the old property only, not the new extension or it would be subject to modern regs. I would say that although they were nice helpful chaps, they didn't sound totally confident of that answer, but it is good enough for me.

This pretty much scuppers my idea as (as mentioned by a few guys above) the cost and availability of the flue adaptors is pretty rediculous and even then the boiler might have to move a foot or so to one side as it is directly under the ridge and there is not really space for 45/90 degree bends etc.

It was a nice thought, but I'm moving towards finding the money for a new boiler, and probably go the system boiler and cylinder route.

Rest assured, all gas works will be carried out by a competent installer. I know it is hugely frustrating when clients try and skrimp and save ( I have been there as a contracting spark!), but if you had found a 200m2 victorian cellar under the proposed footings of your two storey extension, you'd see where my thought process had originated :)

Cheers all

Stuart
 
It can be moved but not into the new section? The law truly is an bum then. Are you allowed to plumb radiators in the new section from a non-compliant boiler in the old section ;) ?
 
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It can be moved but not into the new section? The law truly is an bum then. Are you allowed to plumb radiators in the new section from a non-compliant boiler in the old section ;) ?

In simple terms erp screwed us all that's why you can't move It
 
Never gonna do gas but can you elaborate a little Shaun? Thanks

The new part will come under the new erp / energy efficiency rules so the old boiler wouldn't comply, that's why he couldn't move it into the new part but can stat in the old part etc
 
Yes, but the inefficient boiler will still be heating the new section, unless the new section is independently heated.
 
Yes, but the inefficient boiler will still be heating the new section, unless the new section is independently heated.

They don't care about that aslong as the old boiler isn't in the new building
 
Had this issue a few months back on a quote
The existing boiler can be moved within the original footprint of the building, but not into a new extension as this falls under current building regs which don't allow non condensing boilers to be fitted
So therefore, if it was moved into new extension it wouldn't comply with building regs
I lost the job as I wouldn't move the existing boiler, only replace with new
No doubt they found someone who would

PS the above mentioned job was in the rear of a church building and they were made aware of regs etc, but still looked for the cheaper option
 
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