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Potentially being taken to court. What should I do?

Discuss Potentially being taken to court. What should I do? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

armyash said:
No probs.

Also I have my call to TS recorded. I haven't heard any thing back from the customer today.

I have a new call recorder app and it works perfectly, once the call has ended I can send a copy of the recording to my email. If I hear from the customer again or if I decide to write to them I will make it clear that all communication is being recorded/logged.
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Sounds useful Ash, which app is it?
I agree with you doing it properly with the fixings by the way.
 
They have said they want 300, the total cost for repairs is more I believe from what they have said but I don't know thr final figure. I don't know if it's more than one firm involved or exactly what they are paying for.
 
rpm said:
Sounds useful Ash, which app is it?
I agree with you doing it properly with the fixings by the way.
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Its called 'call recorder'

You may get ads on your phone from downloading it but there looks to be a few apps that do the same thing.

This came top of the search results and no problems so far.

_20180514_200337.JPG
 
tbh, I`m thinking of the answer machine calls where the customers speak at 100mph and I struggle to get their name and address.
What is it with some people speaking to a machine for gawd sake!
 
rpm said:
tbh, I`m thinking of the answer machine calls where the customers speak at 100mph and I struggle to get their name and address.
What is it with some people speaking to a machine for gawd sake!
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or keep saying emm emmm then the phone goes dead
 
The customers partner also said to me she would be happy to accept the payment in instalments "because she knows you don't have a lot of money"

That was a strange thing to say as I've never discussed my finances with them, it makes me believe even more that she is a bit of a snob. Must be because I get dirty in work I couldn't possibly earn good money. Even when I would say hello or at the end of the job I was overly polite if anything always grateful for my payment and she would look at me like something she had stood in.

I earn half decent money and my partner earns good money. Not that this has anything to do with the matter but I took it as a way to belittle me.
 
armyash said:
The customers partner also said to me she would be happy to accept the payment in instalments "because she knows you don't have a lot of money"

That was a strange thing to say as I've never discussed my finances with them, it makes me believe even more that she is a bit of a snob. Must be because I get dirty in work I couldn't possibly earn good money. Even when I would say hello or at the end of the job I was overly polite if anything always grateful for my payment and she would look at me like something she had stood in.

I earn half decent money and my partner earns good money. Not that this has anything to do with the matter but I took it as a way to belittle me.
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Excellent, offer her a £1 a week :cool:
 
I'm going to write a letter tomorrow to explain everything to them. I will ask for all the relevant information, say why I don't accept liability.

I will say I surely needed to be made aware of the situation before any repairs were Carried out or at least been informed sooner than I have been.

Will say all calls will be recorded and logged.

Will explain it was an accident and that all reasonable care was taken when carrying out the work. Will add some plumbing related stuff in about pipe in screeded floor depths, not being run in the best place. Toilet was already there.

Will add plenty more and may have to write it a few times. Will send recorded delivery.

All thanks to the replies on here! Thanks.

If it ended up in court and I lost. I could live with that but I don't like how it's all been done.
 
i would say this "Will explain it was an accident" as it sort of admits

i would say along the lines of

sometimes accidents happen etc
 
Does anyone have a link to something that shows I legally should have been made aware of the problem or been given a chance to arrange repairs before it got this far.

I have been told to quote consumer act 2015 but I can't find anything that shows what I need. Im hoping to quote something in the letter.
 
I would probably say something along the lines of
Please send me pictures and copies of all invoices and reports so that I can pass it onto my insurance company to investigate. Unfortunately as you didn't notify me of the issue, give me chance to rectify myself ,arrange another comply to do so or involve my insurance provider I don't think there is anything that can be done.
 
You will probably over think this and worry too much.
Just keep gathering any evidence and facts together and stay calm. Also hope the woman gets angry and says something stupid in writing.
Get a friend who has some experience in legal sort of issues to help you at each stage.
 
Shaun etc. Sorry, but you are wrong on the recording of your own calls.

You DO NOT need to inform anyone you are recording UNLESS it is to be used by another party. That was straight from the ICO and when we joked about that being recorded he said perfectly fine.

YOU may legally record what you like so long as it is for your OWN use. That includes using it as evidence if ness as that's for you. As soon as third parties are involved (training, quality etc) then notification is needed.

I'll carry on reading now...
 
YorkshireDave said:
Shaun etc. Sorry, but you are wrong on the recording of your own calls.

You DO NOT need to inform anyone you are recording UNLESS it is to be used by another party. That was straight from the ICO and when we joked about that being recorded he said perfectly fine.

YOU may legally record what you like so long as it is for your OWN use. That includes using it as evidence if ness as that's for you. As soon as third parties are involved (training, quality etc) then notification is needed.

I'll carry on reading now...
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You sure about this as there's new rulings coming down due to the Facebook stuff that includes all records etc
 
ShaunCorbs said:
You sure about this as there's new rulings coming down due to the Facebook stuff that includes all records etc
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Still think the rule - as long as the information isn't passed on to a third party, then it is still legal.
I did it once to protect myself from any possible allegations and it proved handy to note take later precisely what was said.
Sadly I think recording audio and often video is now the way to do a lot of business, just to keep accuracy and to protect ourselves from false allegations.
 
AA. Your life, but as I've explained, I've been there done it and won.

As I have already said, you are being mugged. This is actually VERY simple to resolve so do not be sidetracked.

Send a letter asking for full details of everything. By that I mean a complete breakdown - her story and copies of everything. Happy to put it together for you if it would help. You have my number so you can text me an email address. The point of this is to see what they have. You cannot begin to negotiate if you have no info and no point to start from. The letter needs to 'infer' that its point is to assess your liability so you can cough up an appropriate amount. However it must not even infer any form of liability.

Once the info is received it shows their hand. Once their hand is exposed an appropriate response can be formulated. It allows you to go back and either say 'fine here's £50' or 'go away'.

DO NOT try to make a letter look legal. It is fraught with problems and will immediately put them on the defensive. It has to be an honest letter (always keep 1/2 and eye on the fact it may end up in court), reasonable and open. In other words very carefully crafted an unambiguous in its content.

This can very easily go away. Let me know if I can help.
 
100%. GDPR applies from 25th May and until then its old (98) data protection act. Even so, so long as it's for personal use its fine. GDPR is all about non exploitation.
 
That’s not even close to the repair costs. I would have thought about £500 and more. How comes that the engineer who got called out knew exactly where to look for? That would have been one of the needle in te hay stack one.

I’m pretty sure the previous one has caused it and blames it on you
 
Yorkshire dave, I will text you my email address this morning and I will call at some point this afternoon when I am free. Thank you.
 
Without having to read through all this post again, did you see the 'drilled hole', I mean could it have been a pitted copper pipe?
If you've already said then ignore me, I have lost track a bit now.
 
Matchless.plumb said:
That’s not even close to the repair costs. I would have thought about £500 and more. How comes that the engineer who got called out knew exactly where to look for? That would have been one of the needle in te hay stack one.

I’m pretty sure the previous one has caused it and blames it on you
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I don't know what the final costs are, just that I've been asked for £300.
 
Last Plumber said:
Without having to read through all this post again, did you see the 'drilled hole', I mean could it have been a pitted copper pipe?
If you've already said then ignore me, I have lost track a bit now.
Click to expand...


Only picture I have of the damage is the picture I have posted on this thread.
 
£300 is a modest sum and often a small amount like that is a ploy to get the tradesperson to just pay up to avoid any trouble.
Interesting she said she would accept instalments as she knows you don’t have much money (in her opinion).
That’s very telling, as she assumes she is getting cash payments from you, rather than paid from your insurance.
 
armyash said:
Only picture I have of the damage is the picture I have posted on this thread.
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If you've not even seen the 'alleged drilled hole', then don't lose any more sleep. What are the grounds for taking you to Court?

That they allege you drilled through a pipe which came to light some months after but rather than give you the opportunity to investigate and rectify any mistake you might or might not have made, they decided to get another Plumber to repair it, discard the evidence and send you a photo of a repaired section of pipe along with an invoice for £300? Have you seen the invoice?


Honestly Ash, I doubt this would even get passed a solicitor never mind into a Court.
I would politely, in person, with her and her partner, explain that they should have contacted you as soon as they suspected a leak.
Don't get into an argument, just explain as nice as you can and walk away. I cannot see her taking this much further to be honest.
I know Solicitors near me (North West England) charge £240 per hour. Not many people would start that ball rolling for the sake of £300. Especially not if the case against you is as weak as it sounds.

I am only a Plumber offering advice and giving my opinion here. It is not legal advice from a professional legal person. I can only tell you what I would do in your shoes, as a Plumbing person. :D
 
rpm said:
No pressure drop?
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About the pressure drop, it is unusual to find but I have come across a pipe that had been screwed into actually effectively sealing the leak. I don't think you could get it to seal if you actually tried but it can happen. I have been to a leak that was caused by a screw in a pipe that was damaged weeks ago but only started showing after some time. If you were to drill through tile and screed but not into the pipe and then banged a screw through the lot and into the pipe, I could see it sealing up or at the very least only showing a tiny pinhole type spray which might not show for a while.

Just a thought as to the unusual length of time between the work being carried out and the leak showing at the boiler.

Ash, after your call to trading standards to see where you stand I hope you at least feel a bit better about this horrible situation. I really think the law is on your side with this one.
 
Best said:
£300 is a modest sum and often a small amount like that is a ploy to get the tradesperson to just pay up to avoid any trouble.
Interesting she said she would accept instalments as she knows you don’t have much money (in her opinion).
That’s very telling, as she assumes she is getting cash payments from you, rather than paid from your insurance.
Click to expand...

Her partner has said she has spoken to her home insurance company who have said if she made a claim through them, they would try to recoup the costs from me. I don't think she wants to go through them because it may push her premiums up as well as drag on.

With regards to accepting instalments, I think they feel as though they are doing me a favour as they think I have no money and by saying so they are showing themselves to be reasonable.

If they had called me as soon as the problem occurred I would have been there asap, sorted for free, and dealt with it as best I could, if I had needed someone to sort the tile out I could have done so for a fraction of what they have paid.
 
Stigster said:
About the pressure drop, it is unusual to find but I have come across a pipe that had been screwed into actually effectively sealing the leak. I don't think you could get it to seal if you actually tried but it can happen. I have been to a leak that was caused by a screw in a pipe that was damaged weeks ago but only started showing after some time. If you were to drill through tile and screed but not into the pipe and then banged a screw through the lot and into the pipe, I could see it sealing up or at the very least only showing a tiny pinhole type spray which might not show for a while.

Just a thought as to the unusual length of time between the work being carried out and the leak showing at the boiler.

Ash, after your call to trading standards to see where you stand I hope you at least feel a bit better about this horrible situation. I really think the law is on your side with this one.
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In the last 6 months I have had 2 or 3 jobs where a screw or nail have been plugging a hole and the leak has appeared as the screw/nail has corroded and no longer able to act as a plug.
 
scott_d said:
The builder/tiler may have done it ripping up the old tiles. Bodged a repair and it's shown 2 months later
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Its hard to say because the picture is not crystal clear. I'm not disputing it happened on the install I did but its s stupid place to run heating pipes and my biggest issue is how they have asked for the money with me not knowing anything about it.
 
Howpossible is it that someone will be so lucky to find that central heating leak? As mentioned earlier it’s a needle in the hay stack thing. Only a person who knew there were pipes below the pan could find it so easily. That would be for me almost the last resort to look for a leak on a ch leak.
 
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