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Discuss 28mm copper pipe instalation?? Commercial plumbing in the Commercial Plumbing Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    Can anyone help??!!!
    Been asked to carry out a cold water mains installation to serve a fire hose from an existing copper pipe in a factory. The pipework will need to run 16m horizontally then drop 8m vertically. The pipe will be 28mm copper. my issue is will this length of pipework be affected with expansion, ie does it matter if compression fittings are used?
    Also what is the best way of clamping the pipe to a steel support beam ?
     
  2. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    is the fire hose on a separate fire circuit ? or is it just on the water main?
     
  3. Chalked

    Chalked Plumber GSR

    Why compression????
    Solder fittings much more reliable. Or hire a copper press fit gun and do it in press fit. Would be cheaper than compression. Even adding in the hire cost.
     
  4. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    im guessing no hot works
     
  5. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    It's mains fed as far as I'm aware
     
  6. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    It's in a paper mill, hot works can be done but there'll be a lot of risk assessments to fill in!
     
  7. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    right couple of pointers

    get approval from the water supplier / board first as sometimes they class fire reels as cat 5

    but what are you doing about backflow prevention ? if its class as 3/4

    i wouldn't worry about expansion at that length its not going to be much 25mm at most (more like 10mm)

    you have a few options depending on what steel beam you have

    M10 Vertical Flange (1-5mm) Threaded Rod Hanger

    Flange Clamps Lindapter & BTS

    Heavy Duty Beam Clamp ( Pair)

    25-30mm Surefix XL Rubber Lined Pipe Clamp -

    i would press fit tbh

    geberit 28mm press fit fittings

    Copper | Pipekit

    and you can hire the tool for about £150 a week (£ 40 a day) roughly
     
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  8. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

     
  9. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    Thanks. I'll look into it. I was going to put a double check valve on as close to the hose as possible. Press fit sounds like a good option , I've not done much commercial work before and certainly not installed a 16m run so was unsure about the expansion. Think that's helped me out a lot anyway
     
  10. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    double check would be ok if the water board classed it as cat 3

    cat 4 would need a rpz valve

    or 5 a break tank

    tbh i think they would class it as cat 4

    but what ever they decide get it in writing
     
  11. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    There's 3 other hoses already on the system that have check valves on so was just going to copy those. I'll definitely look into what cat they are though so nothing comes back on me. Thanks again
     
  12. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    fair enough there not on there own circuit are they ?

    also dont forget to lag it

    either foil insulation or armaflex

    Armaflex Insulation, Knauf Pipe Insulation and Rockwool Pipe Lagging PipeLagging.com
     
  13. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    No, they're all on the same system, the customer just wants another hose connection adding to it . Definitely be lagging it though
     
  14. Gareth Harris

    Gareth Harris New Member

    Don't just copy what's there as you may fall foul as pointed out by @ShaunCorbs@ShaunCorbs

    Another good point raised is that this work needs to be notified to the Water Supplier, and they will also assist in identifying the correct backflow prevention to install.

    You also need to consider stagnation in the pipe to the shower hose, so may also require a single check valve where it tees off the main.

    good luck!
     
  15. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    I'm still awaiting for the job to be accepted so I'll definitely be in touch with the water board if I get the job . Thanks for all your advice
     
  16. Gareth Harris

    Gareth Harris New Member

    No Problem. You need to speak to the Water Regs department. as you haven't stated who the water supplier is contact details for all can be found here: WRAS Water Company Contacts

    Better to do it once and get it right than have to go back!
     
  17. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    Yes, I don't fancy going back once it's done . Most of the pipework is suspended 8m high so I don't fancy paying for access twice !
     
  18. Whale

    Whale New Member

    what are you using for access??? ☺☺☺
     
  19. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Would think scaf or scissor
     
  20. Whale

    Whale New Member

    i'd go scissor lift personally
     
  21. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Depends on access on site and there not cheap :)
     
  22. Whale

    Whale New Member

    8 meters on a tower too scary for me
    iv always spoiled myself with scissor booms and my new favourite and star 10 but I don't know what it is wired boom lift thing just my 2p worth
     
  23. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    Going for a boom lift just because scissor lift won't reach some areas. Only ever used a scissor lift in the past so let's see how it goes !
     
  24. Whale

    Whale New Member

    might be worth doing an ipaf course if you havent done one. a lot of the place we work won't let us use them in till we show the out ipaf cards
     
  25. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    The company I'm carrying out the work for has a guy who's fully trained so he'll be operating it , It's rare I do much big commercial work tbh but looking forward to this one. Makes a nice change from the usual domestic stuff
     
  26. Starky

    Starky GSR


    Sorry for going slightly off topic but why would exspansion be an issue if its mains cold water that won't be heated?
     
  27. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    thermal the water wont stay at the same temp all the time so you have to allow for this
     
  28. Ecoplumbing

    Ecoplumbing New Member

    Yes, winter and summer months room temperature will be very different. That's why I asked. Some very knowledgeable people here, nice that they help each out
     
  29. Starky

    Starky GSR

    Hi ecoplumbing, it does seem like a nice place here.

    How would you allow for the exspansion? Going a pipe size up or vessel?
     
  30. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    TBH I wouldn't allow for it, just make sure you don't put a clip straight after (within 1 foot) a elbow

    Anything over an 1" I would allow for
     
  31. Starky

    Starky GSR

    Shauncorbs. Thanks for your reply on this thread and others. You have been great help.

    What is the reason for putting a clip 1ft after the first elbow. Would it cause the pipe to fracture the clip.

    I don't think I'll come across this scenario as I don't do commercial plumbing. But it's all way good to know.
     
  32. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    To allow some expansion (can move 5mm)
     
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