Advice on new heating system?

[tintin]

Hi Folks,

Not sure if I am in the right place but looking for some help from more enlightened ones on the issue of home heating.

My current situation is as follows. I live in the UK in a 1970s 3 bed room semi detached.
Oil fired boiler, open front fire with a back boiler that heats the hot water through a twin coil cylinder tank. 9 radiators. In the winter my oil boiler is on for 2 hr in the morning, 2 hr in the evening, and the odd hr in the afternoon if we are in. The fire is on if the temperature outside is single figures, we burn coal and wood. In the summer the oil boiler is used for 1 hr in the morning and 30min in the evening, all rads are closed and the fire never on. This supplies all the hot water we need and keeps the house cosy for me the wife and 2 young kids.

I worked out that my average cost of oil has been £550 per year averaged over the last 8. Quite happy with that, but my coal and wood bill for the open fire is averaged at £220 a year which caught me suprised. My plumber assures me my oil boiler is excellent and has tested it at 90% efficiency.

So I am looking at he options and hoping some help from you guys may make the decision process a bit clearer.

One option is gas. Many folk in my town have been fitting gas over the last decade. Now while the initial outlay is substantial, the efficency would surely be much greater, and the space saving by removing all the infrastructure of my oil system would be a bonus, and the option of fitting a balanced flue gas fire is appealing. No coal or wood needing stored, and no mess! Now I just calculated the gas price and found it to be 10% more expensive than oil, but with the efficiency it may be like splitting hairs.

Another option would be remove my open front fire and fit a multi fuel burner, however I am a bit reluctant to do this as my baxi back boiler would then be redundant. I did enquire with a local tradesman years ago regarding fitting a wood burning with a boiler to my existing back boiler pipes, but he said they were of a diameter that could not be used by modern burners (too small).

And the final option, do nothing and cut back on the open fire usage, much to my wife's annoyance (she loves the fire on a winter evening).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

 

[king of pipes]

There is no easy answer here your existing system has given you years of service but it sounds like its time for a upgrade , you are wise to plan for this before your existing system fails so you end up with the right type of system to suit your family and lifestyle , the cost of oil is still low and the efficiency of these boilers is as good as gas but dont forget your oil tank ,radiators , cylinder controls ,water storage tanks and connecting pipework are all old to , i would suggest you employ a good local tradesmen to advise you the best way to go talk to your neighbours who have upgraded and see how they did it. Happy newyear . kop

 

[Chuck]

Some basic rules when planning CH upgrades is:

1. Don't install a system the wife won't like / understand.

2. Don't a replace safe and reliable boiler in the expectation that future savings in running costs will pay for the cost.

3. FInd a good installer. Listen carefully to their advice.

 

[gmartine]

Sound's like you've a good mix of energy that you're paying less for than the average family in an average semi. Given your concerns about the cost of coal and wood I'd reconsider installing a much more efficient multi-fuel stove but without connecting or installing a back boiler which although useful as a hot water backup seems redundant considering your pattern of use. Secondly avoid (if you are) buying and burning seasoned wood and invest in a chainsaw. If not I'd consider using heat logs rather than timber to get a start on your fires, using a mf stove it's easy to get coal going and once loaded should last most of the day or night without refueling, also whether you need to or not use smokeless as it's a better quality fuel and will burn for longer rather than say house coal.

 

[Last Plumber]

Your system is old I suppose and you are right to start weighing up your options.
Personally, I would forget the efficiency thoughts because I don't think you will notice massive difference whatever you decide to do by way of the Boiler, as for the fire, I like a real flame and the multi fuel I have is not bad to run to be honest.
Talk to a local Heating Engineer. Don't listen to the sales pitch individual with promises of massive savings !

 

[gmartine]

A decent mf burner will be around 70 - 80 % efficient compared to an open fire which is probably half that as most of the heat disappears up the flue. Even if it generously saves you 40% in fuel costs it'll still take years to recover the cost of installation so it's more a lifestyle choice but worth it if it keeps the Mrs happy. Having said that they kick out so much more heat they can end up heating more of your house and therefore you'll possibly use less fuel oil long term. Again efficiency claims token with a pinch.

 

[tintin]

There is a good point Chuck!
'2. Don't a replace safe and reliable boiler in the expectation that future savings in running costs will pay for the cost.'


This is probably something that I take for granted. My current WB oil boiler never skips a beat. 90% efficient and my plumber who services it yearly always sings its praise.
I guess it would be foolish to rip out something that gives me such little hassle over the years.

So that brings me to the open fire. The only thing stopping me going down the multi fuel stove route is that I am reluctant to do away with my baxi back boiler, as it heats the water tank nicely in winter in conjunction with the oil boiler. But then I have no ideal of the efficiency of the old baxi back boiler, but doubt that its anything great. My oil boiler would probably consume more oil without the baxi, but probably down to splitting hairs.

Positives for the multi fuel stove is the appearance (my current fireplace is a throwback to the 1970s ), less labour intensive than an open fire, and less mess. I also guess having a stove would cut down on the drafts that the open fire creates. Can multi fuel stoves have a dedicated air intake to reduce draft completely? Similar to a balanced flue gas fire?

Thanks again

 

[Ric2013]

You can get a 'direct air kit' to reduce the draught through the room completely, but a woodburning (or multifuel) stove draws so little air in comparison with an open fire, that any stove will be a massive improvement. I wouldn't necessarily say less work involved though, as a stove is more limited in the size of log it can take, so you may need to cut them shorter/thinner, and you still need to clean out the ashes.
If you are going for a stove, my advice would be to avoid one with excessive heat output, then you're more likely to leave it running on full heat all the time rather than getting an oversized model that you'll end up trying to throttle down (thus making polluting smoke and reducing the burn efficiency). The Salemander Hobbit is a reasonable small stove, to give one example.
At the end of the day, £220 a year for something you(r wife) will enjoy may not be worst use of money, and you might find that, even with a small stove, you won't save a huge amount of wood. The difference is that the stove will actually heat the house and reduce the amount of heat your oil boiler has to provide, whereas an open fire in a heated house actually tends to make the house colder due to the huge amount of air that passes up the chimney.

 

[gmartine]

Ideally you'd have your chimney lined and insulated which will eliminate drafts and make for a far more efficient setup. If its a largish room and you need more than a 5kw stove it is recommended you have an air vent installed but for most a dedicated air supply just isn't necessary.

 

[tintin]

Thanks for all the advice.

So I am leaning towards forgetting about gas until my oil boiler actually gives me real reason to change.

I will start some research into multi fuel boilers with the intention of burning wood / smokeless premium fuel. In going down this route I will be saying goodbye to my Baxi boiler, but the open fire being used almost daily with the cold snaps, it is just too inefficient to justify keeping.

now my hot water cylinder is twin coiled, one coil for the oil boiler, one coil for the Baxi. Will I need to replace this or would a plumber simply terminate the pipework and leave it?

Thanks again

 

[Ric2013]

Keep the spare coil as a spare. Does no harm.

 

[DAVE01]

Hi Folks,

Not sure if I am in the right place but looking for some help from more enlightened ones on the issue of home heating.

My current situation is as follows. I live in the UK in a 1970s 3 bed room semi detached.
Oil fired boiler, open front fire with a back boiler that heats the hot water through a twin coil cylinder tank. 9 radiators. In the winter my oil boiler is on for 2 hr in the morning, 2 hr in the evening, and the odd hr in the afternoon if we are in. The fire is on if the temperature outside is single figures, we burn coal and wood. In the summer the oil boiler is used for 1 hr in the morning and 30min in the evening, all rads are closed and the fire never on. This supplies all the hot water we need and keeps the house cosy for me the wife and 2 young kids.

I worked out that my average cost of oil has been £550 per year averaged over the last 8. Quite happy with that, but my coal and wood bill for the open fire is averaged at £220 a year which caught me suprised. My plumber assures me my oil boiler is excellent and has tested it at 90% efficiency.

So I am looking at he options and hoping some help from you guys may make the decision process a bit clearer.

One option is gas. Many folk in my town have been fitting gas over the last decade. Now while the initial outlay is substantial, the efficency would surely be much greater, and the space saving by removing all the infrastructure of my oil system would be a bonus, and the option of fitting a balanced flue gas fire is appealing. No coal or wood needing stored, and no mess! Now I just calculated the gas price and found it to be 10% more expensive than oil, but with the efficiency it may be like splitting hairs.

Another option would be remove my open front fire and fit a multi fuel burner, however I am a bit reluctant to do this as my baxi back boiler would then be redundant. I did enquire with a local tradesman years ago regarding fitting a wood burning with a boiler to my existing back boiler pipes, but he said they were of a diameter that could not be used by modern burners (too small).

And the final option, do nothing and cut back on the open fire usage, much to my wife's annoyance (she loves the fire on a winter evening).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Any Heating System is only as good as the Controls you have and how you use it Back in the day we allways used 3 seperate circuits Hw Heating upstairs Heating Down stairs ? And how you home is insulated Attic or roof space 30% of heat goes out through roof space .External walls. Windows .etc Why not stay with oil Install a HF oil boiler With Controls and Also Hook up the Baxi to do the heating also? This can be used through a interlink and is 100% safe Just be carefull what ever you deside look to see other jobs that your installer has installed because you could be ripped off In a big way

 

[Ric2013]

Back in the day we allways used 3 seperate circuits Hw Heating upstairs Heating Down stairs

Sounds posh. What sort of projects were you working on back in the day?

 

[tintin]

Hi Folks,
An update for you, and hopefully some food for thought should anyone stumble across this thread in the future.

So I have multiple gas engineers out to survey my property, all were keen for the work, and confident that gas would be a good choice. However I couldn't get over the fact that I would be doing away with a perfectly good WB oil boiler (90% efficiency). So in the end after much thought I decided to stick with the oil. I will move to gas at some point, but only when my existing system really gives me reason to.

That brings us to the open fire. I decided to go for it and rip out the back boiler and install a Heta Inspire 45 wood stove. I was very apprehensive in loosing my trusted back boiler, but went ahead.
Ont the first night of firing up the new stove I was amazed. The heat is unreal! Totally surpassed all my expectations. Best of all my house no longer has a draft running through it. The heat migrates throughout the house the place feels toasty all the time. Previously as soon as the heating knocks off the temp would drop off within an hr or so, not any more.

So if your thinking about doing away with an open fire, go for it, best decision I made!

 

[gmartine]

Very very nice looking stove, if it is set inside your fireplace (as most are) you might want to consider a stove fan. They actually do a really good job of projecting the radiated heat outwards rather than just travel upwards, I have two on a stove that's actually set outside the stack and it is noticeable when they are not in operation. The whole room heats up far more readily and subsequently so does the rest of the house.

 

[tintin]

Haha, already in! I had the fan bought before the stove. Works a charm, I have it directed at the lounge door and it really pushes loads of hot air out into the hall. Very happy, and the Mrs loves it which is always a bonus.