At risk Warning Sticker put on Pool Heater

[Jon Seed]

Hi,

New to the forum, but a regular reader from Ayr in Scotland.

I recently had gas & electric smart meters installed by smart meter installers.
Once fitted the gas appliances, cooker, boiler & gas fire were checked Ok. I had trouble restarting the swimming pool heater outside, but eventually got it going once the line had been purged through with gas. ( it has a few safety features, so took time).

Now because of this, the engineer thought the gas piping run at 22mm was undersized as the manual for the heater (Certikin MB155) stated a recommended pipe length of 10 metres. The pipe length here is around 20metres.
He then applied a sticker to the heater & wrote out a “at risk” note, stating undersize piping as the reason, although the heater was left on as the pool is being heated at present. We use it in summer only, when house heating is off.

My question is... Does it need increased pipe diameter to 28mm ?

It goes down the side wall of the house, then underneath the house to the meter. It was installed in 1996 & has been working fine since installation . Is there a reason it is unsafe ? Could a gas safe engineer check the heater gas pressures & deem safe to use as it is ?

Any advice would help. I don’t want to have the thing unsafe or out of action.


Jon

 

[Sharp Point]

It needs a gas safe registered installer out to inspect and calculate the gas pipe size. Even the 10 metre length business, is quite a vague statement really

 

[Jon Seed]

Thanks for the reply. I attach the screenshots from the manual with gas requirements for the 155 model. Running on propane 24metre length of pile would be OK in 22mm.

Do people specialise in pool heater installations, or would a local Gas Safe Engineer be able to check the system is OK. ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You would need to have the pool boiler qualification sorry to say

 

[Chalked]

Without giving advice on something out of your legal scope.

That pipe is massively undersized. Please call a registered gas safe pool engineer to upgrade the pipework to the correct size.

 

[Jon Seed]

Oh that does not sound good.

I have no intention of digging up driveway & rooting beneath the house to increase pipework diameter.
Best I could do is get the long length above ground increased in diameter.

I really need to find a pool heater engineer to take a look. Where I start in Scotland is beyond me.

I can't see what problem there is though, if it's been there 22 years running OK.
Will have to see if someone can sort it.

What are the consequences of using At Risk. Bearing in mind it had always been that installation. Legally ?

 

[Chalked]

Just because it’s always worked, don’t mean it’s always worked correctly.
We have to fit and service to regulations, the onus is on us to make sure gas appliances work to manufacturer specifications and are safe.
If a boiler like yours is under gassed, it has a low working pressure. Therefore the combustion process is out.
Best bet is to ring a local pool company, or gas safe. They should be able to advise you of a local fitter.

 

[Darren Jackson]

All may not be lost, you say this is LPG? Then things are a bit different regarding equivalent pipe lengths >24m. If it's been there 20 odd years it desperatley needs a service for a start so book it in for a service & the service engineer will determine if it is safe to use or not. As long as the gas rate is OK & and the working pressure is fine, it will be good to use, providing no other issues are found.

 

[Ric2013]

I don't get the AR in connexion with the pipe sizing. Surely AR means currently okay, but something could easily change to make it Immediately Dangerous? Can anyone explain?

 

[CHRISX]

Oh that does not sound good.

I have no intention of digging up driveway & rooting beneath the house to increase pipework diameter.
Best I could do is get the long length above ground increased in diameter.

I really need to find a pool heater engineer to take a look. Where I start in Scotland is beyond me.

I can't see what problem there is though, if it's been there 22 years running OK.
Will have to see if someone can sort it.

What are the consequences of using At Risk. Bearing in mind it had always been that installation. Legally ?

Hello Jon,

Good Luck with finding a Gas Safe registered Pool Gas Heater Engineer !

Although they obviously exist I would bet that they are `far and few between`.

2 Years ago here in London I was not able to find a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer that had the `Laundry Appliances` for a previous Customer of mine !

Like perhaps quite a few of the older Gas Engineers / Gas Installers on here when the Gas ACOPS were introduced in the early 1990`s I took ALL that were available both Domestic and the Non Domestic [very limited].

One of those Domestic categories was `Laundry Appliances` which if I am remembering correctly at that time was basically limited to 2 Manufacturers of Gas Tumble Dryers - one of which was `White Knight`.

I renewed that ACOPS category each time until the first ACS were introduced and the College where I took all of my ACOPS and ACS dropped the category because the 2 White Knight Gas Tumble dryers were so old by that time that they were malfunctioning and I was one of only 3 Engineers who had taken the category in the past 5 years.

During the time that I had the `Laundry Appliances` I only had ONE Customer who had a White Knight Gas Tumble dryer - She found me because her Son was a friend from a Pub that I used.

We lost touch until She contacted me again 2 years ago - Her latest White Knight Gas Tumble dryer needed a repair and although she had `Breakdown Insurance` from the leading provider in the UK when she telephoned them for a Gas Engineer to come and carry out the repair they asked her to `get a local Gas Engineer to do the repair and we will pay you`.

I told her that I no longer held the `Laundry Appliances` category because I had no call for it - apart from her some years ago - I suggested that she should contact the Manufacturer `White Knight` and ask for one of their Gas dryer Engineers - she did so only for them to state that they no longer had Engineers available to Service or Repair their Gas Dryer Appliances.

I said that I would try and find a suitably registered Gas Engineer via the Gas Safe website.

Although I tried looking within about 50 miles of her Home via various location searches I could NOT find any Gas Engineers who had the `Laundry Appliances` category.

I spoke to Gas Safe asking them to find an Engineer with that category - `no one within 40 miles was the answer` and even further away there were only a few - understandably none of which was interested in travelling to the location of the Gas dryer.

It would not have been feasible for them to come that distance to diagnose the problem - obtain the part and return to fit it.

She contacted the Breakdown Insurance provider again putting the onus back onto them to supply a suitably qualified / category registered Gas Engineer - they could NOT so they had to pay for a new Tumble dryer.

I had advised her that if that happened to NOT get another Gas Tumble dryer because she should be having it regularly Serviced and the situation would occur again at the time of the first Service.

Ridiculously she told me that the Breakdown Insurer was trying to insist that she had to have another `White Knight` or similar Gas Tumble dryer because they wanted to replace `like for like`.

I did not follow up to ask if that ridiculous situation was insisted on.

Having been slightly surprised about the almost total lack of `Gas Laundry Appliances` Engineers I did some searching to see if I could find a Gas ACS Training & Assessment provider for that category - I could NOT - obviously Gas Engineers are not prepared to pay for that category possibly never getting a call to a Gas Tumble dryer.

Some time later I found out that White Knight will not supply Parts for their Gas Tumble dryers so even if a Gas Engineer who had the `Laundry Appliances` category [or whatever it is called now] had been found they would not have been able to repair the Dryer !

Sorry for my `Essay` Jon [and other Members] - I should have just written that 2 Years ago I could not find a `Gas Laundry Appliance` registered Gas Engineer !

I hope that You have much better Luck finding a Swimming Pool Gas Heater registered Gas Engineer.

Regards,

Chris

 

[CHRISX]

Hello again Jon,

I don`t want to dismay You but I did a Gas Safe Register website Engineer search for a `Natural Gas Swimming Pool Boiler` registered Engineer for the Ayr / Ayrshire area - there were NO registered Gas Engineers in Ayrshire that had that category.

Just in case it helps You with further searches the classification for the `Pool Boilers` ACS category is HWB1

There would have been no shortage of registered Gas Engineers for almost every other Natural Gas category - there were loads on the Gas Safe Register in the Ayr / Ayrshire region.

Again - I wish You luck Jon with finding a Gas Engineer with the HWB1 Gas Safety / ACS category to Inspect / Check the Gas rate / Service your Pool Boiler.

Regards,

Chris