Bathroom radiator / heated towel rail plumbed into hot water circuit

[Brooksie]

People talk about how their bathroom radiator or heated towel rail is plumbed into the hot water rather than the central heating circuit. This means when the central heating is off the radiator can still get hot (to dry towels etc).

How is this achieved?

Does the radiator have to be plumbed into the primary circuit or can you just plumb the radiator into the hot water distribution circuit? Does the radiator need to be in series or in parellel with these circuits.
Are any special control or regulator valves required?

Thanks in advance. Advice and knowledge are, as always, much appreciated

Brooksie

 

[bushplumbing@ya]

On a fully pumped system it's just a very large by-pass, you 'tee' it after the pump but before the zone valves, so when ever the boiler is fired water will flow around the towel warmer. You must make sure the towel warmer return is teed in after the heating return if its before it will travel back up the heating return and warm the heating circult. Hope that helps steve bush

 

[sonray ltd]

it is also against regs to do it. that would not be accepted on a new built etc it would have to be on the heating circuit.

 

[bushplumbing@ya]

what regs, if fitted with a trv its classed as a regulated heat supply, we do it on our new builds, never been picked up by NHBC or building reg's inspector, not being argumentive just curious.

 

[buffy27]

whats the craic. this cannot b done [correct me please if i am wrong]
towel warmer as a d h w bypass-never heard of this for obvious reasons{oxidization}
seen towel warmers used as bypasses and heat dumps.even tied into under floor.

 

[garry]

Buffy 27 u r correct mate and could someone tell me where allthis HW is going when you have but it into the heating system cause with my adding up u r overloading the pressure on the system all heatin systems are separt and always should be. Am shocked to here this is happening how your systems have not blown i will never know

 

[leakylea]

In the north west it is common for the bathroom rad to be on the circs to the cylinder so it gets warm when cylinder heating and when rads are heating, what ever the system gravity or pumped its a great way to warm a bathroom rad with trvs ....perfect

 

[uug197h]

]

customers don't always get what they want, if you do it then its on your head and you will pay the price not the customer, talk to the customer and explain the issue if you explain right then the customer will change there mind and take your advice, the customer called you because they don't know what is right or wrong and its up to you to put them right


This post is now out of context there was a previous post and a quotation but it has been removed (the jist of the previous post was you do what the customer wants weather its right or not)

 

[buffy27]

whats the craic.
its obvious that ugg is a moderator on the site and not a plumber in the northwest who endangers peoples water systems and pockets. lads , i am an apprentice still and not to go above my station , but no properly qualified plumber will put his name to such idea s as tying rads into dhw. is this not crazy. whats going on in the northwest, have they no plumbing books there....{no offence intended}

 

[justlead1]

Hi. The wet central heating / hot water domestic systems we install now have evolved from the basic solid fuel boiler. Ideal, aga, parkray, rayburn etc. These system heated the hot water cylinder via gravity circulation and were often direct, The boilers if used on a direct system could be ordered with with a copper boiler. This option was also taken up by rad manufacturer who made and sold copper rads that allowed installation on direct systems, normally in the bathroom,( Bathrooms being at the core of the 1st floor close to cylinder cup board) there prime use being to act as a heat leak to the system in the event of a windy day resulting in the system boiling.
In the early day of DIY i have come accross these rads being simply fitted on line to the hot water distribution pipe, and the client telling me how wonderful it was to heat the towels when running the bath.
The moral being check old rad when removing they may be worth a few quid. Good Luck

 

[buffy27]

whats the craic
that is very interesting about the copper rads,wasn t aware of this before-tell us more .
is anyone selling such a rad now.
are there still copper boilers thanks

 

[Logic]

I deal almost exclusively with central heating/hot water systems and although I mayn't be what you would call an expierienced head in the field, having been involved in the decommissioning and installation of a plethora of said systems, I cannot say I've ever laid eyes up such an arrangement. Bizarre indeed. It is certainly plausible though isn't it? What would ordinarily be the return side of the rail tied into your soil appropriately and you're away aren't you?

(Just seems like an unnecessary design frill above all mind!)

 

[leakylea]

buffy 27 the rad would be on the circs to the hot water cylinder! not on the actual dhw, like you say your an apprentice theres a lot to see,in the wonderful world of plumbing.

 

[buffy27]

buffy 27 the rad would be on the circs to the hot water cylinder! not on the actual dhw, like you say your an apprentice theres a lot to see,in the wonderful world of plumbing.

whats the craic.
leakylee.
i understand it is ok if it is on a primary to the coil on the cylinder, i have a farely good grasp on the text book stuff.i do alot of reading and research.i thought in reading the origional thread posted that the question was in relation to a rad on the dhw circuit.i really do know i have a lot to learn ,thats why i am here. i m pretty up on most aspects of general plumbing.where i lack knowledge is on gas.no gas in my area. some l p g but very little.combi boilers quite rare around here also.i am grateful for your advice. buffy

 

[fatoftheland]

Actually Towel rails on Dhw circuits can and still are fitted in larger houses on the secondary hot water DHW. The towel warmers are all brass (chrome plated) to prevent them rotting from the inside out. The water is circulated by a bronze pump. This also achieves almost instant hot water from the cylunders even if the hot taps are a long way from the cylinders. THe secondary pipes need to be lagged from cylinder to near the tap outlets and also on the secondary return. There a lot of older commercial installations done like this

 

[buffy27]

Actually Towel rails on Dhw circuits can and still are fitted in larger houses on the secondary hot water DHW. The towel warmers are all brass (chrome plated) to prevent them rotting from the inside out. The water is circulated by a bronze pump. This also achieves almost instant hot water from the cylunders even if the hot taps are a long way from the cylinders. THe secondary pipes need to be lagged from cylinder to near the tap outlets and also on the secondary return. There a lot of older commercial installations done like this

whats the craic
fair play, a guy who has explained the whole thing in 2 lines. i can c how this type of set up would work.i have not come across this and appreciare the knowledge u share .

 

[WHPES]

I have come across towel warmers in the DHW side regularly either on gravity or with circulating pumps. They are all made from brass. Does not come into the water regulations as it does not have anything to do with the cold, drinking water supply.

 

[stevetheplumber]

the norm 20 years ago was to put the towel rail on the primaries so it got hot in summer largely dissapeared now in smaller houses as most are combis however i have done it on combis by simply teeing in before any rads and fitting a valve downstream ,either manual or zone valve