Can you sign off an installation done by a non-GSR plumber?

[AlexGas]

I d be happy to sign off work that has been done by someone else as long as I could see the whole installation...

You won’t be able to check the whole installation without ripping the gas pipework off the wall!!!

Please tell me this, you have a nice house, pretty wife and pretty kids… Are you saying you let some mug into your house to install a gas boiler and then some other mug to sing it off!? YES or NO?

 

[Dotty]

Kind of academic now Alex. Unfortunately we don't have enough details to report him to GSR to investigate. Neither can we be seen to encourage him, by association or otherwise.

His account, after a very brief discussion in the Mod Cave, has been terminated.

 

[plumben]

I d be happy to sign off work that has been done by someone else as long as I could see the whole installation and it passed all the tests in the mf instruction.A lot of people on here will have apprentice s that will run gas pipe work hang boilers for them pipe them ect there not gas safe registered its no different you trust them to do*it.if*I trust the person fitting it than I have no problem signing itoff.each*to there*own.RPM*I don t have to show my gsr badge to have an opinion on gas or deemed competent.

Well you make a fair point there but theirs a difference, Im Not GSR but ive installed 30-40 boilers working under my old boss, but the difference is, i was taught how to install boilers and gas pipework by a professional and at the same time i was learning it all in college as well, also a trainee can only install gas appliances if there GSR person is standing behind them and checking all of the work they carry out

 

[stevetheplumber]

it's a definite no no. When you service you don't scrutinise every single part of the installation for example is the gas pipe installed to standard where it disappears into the floor. I would assume there is nobody here that will go pulling up floorboards just to check the gas pipe run for example? Why not? Because you have to make a certain degree of assumption that the person who installed it knew what they were doing. If you are signing off someone else's work then you have no confirmation that everything has been installed to standard unless you demolish it and start again in which case what's the point

so when you fit a new boiler you remove all the boards to inspect the existing gas run ?or do you ask for the bench mark for the twenty year old boiler your just about to rip out ? goes back to what i said we all certify other peoples work

 

[Riley]

so when you fit a new boiler you remove all the boards to inspect the existing gas run ?or do you ask for the bench mark for the twenty year old boiler your just about to rip out ? goes back to what i said we all certify other peoples work

If I was doing an install I would because you never know what the previous person has done in terms of pipe sizing. I've seen it where the whole run was in 15mm up to about a meter from the boiler when it was upsized to 22mm then comically back to 15mm to go n the boilers gas fitting

 

[newcastle phill]

I had one just like that the other day.
22 through the worktop into boiler.
Come the day of the install. Pull the cupboards out and 15mm behind backs and along and under floor onto the original 22mm line.
Had to up size it all to 22mm except about 18 inches i couldnt get too. Due to brand new flooring.
Fortunately all working pressures were fine at conclusion but deffo would not have been.

 

[Leezygeezer]

I have been asked many times, I usually say yes, it's £600. When asked why it's so much I tell them that I become responsible for the whole installation and I need to check absolutely everything about it.

Not had any takers so far

 

[Leezygeezer]

Haha, more like a couple of cans of d & b and fish and chips, prices have gone up a bit you know

 

[Pssst]

I can remember the days when Gas Safe didnt exist and there was no certification procedure. I dont have boilers on my ticket at the moment but have plenty of experience under my belt and wouldnt think twice about fitting/replacing my own.

 

[Gary80gas]

Ive read the thread and still no clearer, I have never done it, but if I were to sign off an unregistered engineers work this would have to be against the regs. They have still worked on a gas appliance illegally and I would be covering condoning this and undermining my own registration.

 

[lame plumber]

Ive read the thread and still no clearer, I have never done it, but if I were to sign off an unregistered engineers work this would have to be against the regs. They have still worked on a gas appliance illegally and I would be covering condoning this and undermining my own registration.

if you carry out all the works required in the tb laying down the actions required, you wouldnt be seen to be condoning an illegal install, as you would have completely inspected all the gas lines replacing any you are unhappy with, and ensured that all the system meets the regs. To do this takes time and money, so you may well be having to charge the customer a fair amount of money to achieve a safe and functioning system. You will also have to ensure the plumbing is also correct and upto building regs standards as your going to be the one responsible for it in future, ie a year as you are undertaking to warranty this system now. So if you are doing all this and taking on the responsibility, you may well be looking at charging anywhere from £600 to over £1000 for your labour and any parts required. If you have done all of this and been paid the sums mentioned, you are hardly condoning illegal workers, its only if you go and sign off the paperwork for £50 you are leaving yourself open to gas safe chasing your tail down the line

 

[Gary80gas]

Id want to take it off the wall and start from scratch and that would cost more then £50. Ive been approached with customers saying our plumbers gone sick will you come and finish it, im too busy to get involved with a mess.

 

[Ted808]

I've had one last week, the guy can't get hold of the installer, after an combi-combi relacement - (to be fair he said he did check him out- has a wedsite and that,) but hasn't answered his phone for weeks. Actually cust was ringing cuz boiler pressure kept goin up- so i went and had a look.. behold the old filling loop behind the cupboard was letting-by, so poor guy was bleeding his rads every day about a litre!!

Boiler is not registered- I checked for him... NOW WHAT?

 

[newcastle phill]

Advise customer and dont concern yourself.
Its not your problem to resolve imho

 

[gassed up]

I thought that the homeowner can pay the council b regs dept to sign it off, so I would imagine that they will just commission a gs engineer to do it. I wonder if anyone on here has been asked by the council to do one and if so what they did.

 

[tamz]

Building control (if asked) would just send one of their guys round to have a look and about all they would check is flue positions and the boiler wasn't falling off the wall. They are not qualified to do anything else.
They don't pass work on but would i imagine, advise the homeowner to get it checked.

 

[Drm]

Looking for a gas safe engineer to sign work off and help with my portfolio I will supply work as and when I can as have been messed around so many times I need a reliable worker in Portsmouth area. Good paid jobs.

 

[Riley]

Looking for a gas safe engineer to sign work off and help with my portfolio I will supply work as and when I can as have been messed around so many times I need a reliable worker in Portsmouth area. Good paid jobs.

You'd probably be better off starting your own thread mate. Introduce yourself, tell us about your experience etc. We have quite a few guys in your area try and sell yourself to them

 

[Spanish]

I commissioned a boiler fitted by someone recently, there was no registration but after a conflab with GS and the manufacturer and some minor remedial work it is now registered and under warranty, it can be done but there are hoops from every man and his dog, luckily I had access to absolutely every mm of the system.

 

[Darren Jackson]

And there is the million dollar question, Do I/Don,t I ??? You were lucky in the respect that you had access to the whole installation, more often than not the customer is not going to let you start removing furniture, lift carpets & floorboards (or even worse chipboard flooring) , remove the pipe boxing fronts ruining their decoration and start taking out kitchen cupboards so that you can inspect every inch of the installation and unless you can do this, I would never put my name to it. And even then I would be reporting it to GSR before I touched it.

 

[chilo]

Hi there. I think as a registered gas safe it would be our responsibility to inspect the installation and make safe before signing off someone's job and more of an advantage to know the initial installer incase of a problem but if the installation isn't up to standard after inspection there is no need to sign off. That's why we do has safety inspections.

 

[Riley]

Hi there. I think as a registered gas safe it would be our responsibility to inspect the installation and make safe before signing off someone's job and more of an advantage to know the initial installer incase of a problem but if the installation isn't up to standard after inspection there is no need to sign off. That's why we do has safety inspections.

or report them as they shouldn't be doing it in the first place

 

[Gary80gas]

If you walk onto a job and sign it off as your own work, without taking it apart and rebuilding the installation your committing an offence.

 

[Riley]

I don't know why people keep trying to justify it it should be stamped out not promoted as a way to dodge the rules

 

[joni os]

Rules should be firmed up for all concerned. If apprentices or others are carrying out part of the work it should be under the direct supervision of GS engineer, present on site at the time.

 

[Riley]

Rules should be firmed up for all concerned. If apprentices or others are carrying out part of the work it should be under the direct supervision of GS engineer, present on site at the time.

Agreed mate but that's a bit different to Joe Public fitting it himself to save money then trying to get an engineer to sign off. Both need stronger penalties in my eyes

 

[surreygasman]

Just don't get involved if you value your Gas Safe Registration. This is just encouraging the illegals to prosper. Let them have the aggro with the customer and Gas Safe when the customer dosent receive a correctly completed Benchmark doc (with FGA printout attached) AND a proper Building Regs Notification. Look at what we spend each year on registrations, ACS every five years, all test equipment, calibration fees etc etc etc - the list goes on.

 

[abc_plumb]

The only way to increase safety and prevent Cowboys from working on jobs is the manufactures of gas appliance, and merchants tighten up. If each gas appliance sold had to be registered to a gas safe number and signed by the engineer before it was sold, it would reduce the rogue fitters.
All boilers have to be registered and serviced annually for manufactures to validate the warranty.

We all know this will never happen as all manufactures have to hit targets. If 1 manufacture does it they lose customers as the cheap landlord will just choose another manufacture that gives less aggro.

I'm a service agent for a boiler manufacture. The 1st thing I check for in warrenty calls is the gas safe installations cert, then the benchmark commissioning list. If it's been 12 months from install date then a proof of service. If these are not there, I have to say good bye and walk out.

At the same time it's about educating the public/customer.
The amount of time I've said to customers that they should be looking at the gas safe ID I have around my neck. For all they know it may have expired or I may not be competent to work on anything apart from pipe work.
What still shocks me is some people still thinks it's Corgi :13:
Gas safe need to do more to make people aware, and we as Gas Safe engineers can do more to help.

 

[SteveWannadoGas]

Am I being thick here? The issue is that the guy signed off unsafe work. Not that he signed off an installation. Had it been properly checked and was all safe, then would there still have been an issue?

 

[Riley]

Yes because install should be by a suitably qualified pwrson

 

[SteveWannadoGas]

as far as im aware, anyone can run the pipes and hang the boiler etc. obviously, whoever signs it off is putting their registration on the line but that`s their call. its up to them to determine whether it is safe or not.

 

[Riley]

as far as im aware, anyone can run the pipes and hang the boiler etc. obviously, whoever signs it off is putting their registration on the line but that`s their call. its up to them to determine whether it is safe or not.

Ugh,

And it's that attitude which ensures it's not being done properly

 

[SteveWannadoGas]

lets say he had signed off a completely safe, well installed appliance. Would he still be prosecuted?

It isnt that he signed off someone elses work, its that he signed off someone elses dangerous work.

 

[Riley]

No but why should he be signing off rather than doing

 

[SteveWannadoGas]

thats a separate issue.

the point is, hes perfectly ok to sign off any work he wants to, but its his name on the line and if the job isnt up to scratch, then its him who will be answerable for that.