DIY power flushing or let the pro's do it

[denyason]

i have had an independent plumber check my system,a second opinion- he says i need to power flush as there is sludge. my contracted servicer will not fix my heating till its had a flush. i've had quotes of 500-1000 pounds and seems too much. i could rent a machine for £180 per week. the plumber stated diy isn't great idea as the pipes are plastic, not copper and could burst due to the pressure and i don't know how to close radiators etc...... my system is a potterton gas condensing combi boiler with 23 (mainly small) radiators. the house is 5 yrs old but i recently had an extention.
my main issues using a pro is price, the length of time keeping an eye on the plumber, quoted 10 hours or so.
my heating is currently bust and my servicer refuses to fix it until a power flush has been done. do i go diy or pay the hefty price for a pro?

 

[helpsy]

It will take all day to do your system properly.
If you pay cheap, generally you'll get a cheap substandard job.
The choice is yours!!!

 

[dontknowitall]

Alternatively find another plumber(?) and don't mention flushing!!

In three years I've not come across any system that NEEDS flushing. Some are grubby and I think I could have got away with suggesting a power flush. In truth a PROPER drain down, fill up and another proper drain down and fill up will do a huge amount and won't put fittings at risk of leaks and so on.

This should take around a day for a plumber with hardly any materials needed.

I've not seen your pipes and radiators so I couldn't be certain that my suggestion is the correct one but if money is an issue it might be worth thinking about.

 

[GrahamM]

That's a fairly big system and will be fair bit of work. If it is not done correctly you will be flushing money away. No acquaintances got any plumbing/heating experience that can do you a favour for few quid if you supply the equipment.
Other than that may just need grit your teeth and pay the money. Just make sure they are fully experienced as there are a lot of people out there that can switch the machine on, but that is about the extent of their knowledge.

 

[denyason]

thanks for the professional help. i don't think a diy job is adequate for such a large system. i have had a quote for 500. its got to be done as i have no heating- with winter fast approaching......

 

[HoodedClaw]

Thats a lot of rads, probably why the flushing price is on the higher side.

As its a combi, if your feeling confidant and have the time you could flush them yourself - here is a reasonable guide.

How to flush a heating system with mains water. - DIYnot.com - DIY and Home Improvement

 

[Gray0689]

If your system needs a flush after only 5 years there is a big problem
Somewhere

 

[Toddyplumb]

You say its plastic pipe what size are the pipes to the radiators ?
What make of pipe is it ?

 

[moony]

5 years and needs a powerflush on a sealed system - either wasnt flushed properly when installed 5 yrs ago - or theyre pulling your leg pal.

what proof do the service provider ask for? if outside work done? i would be inclined to put a cleaner in for a week and then drain down, then see what the service provider says.

the service providers try there best to get out of an expensive fix or any fix to be fair. what is the problem with the heating have they told you what it is?

get a proper plumbing company in - not one that just offers powerflushing - as they will know more about the system.

it will take a good day and i would be looking to charge around the same amount for that many rads to do it properly.

but like i said 5 yrs old theres either problems with the set-up or it wasnt flushed properly when they new system went in. did you keep all the rads from the old system or were new ones fitted?

 

[Toddyplumb]

If its Hep2o non barrier it could be blocked solid !

 

[Gray0689]

If its Hep2o non barrier it could be blocked solid !

Why??
5 year old hep would be barrier pipe

 

[Toddyplumb]

You can get barrier or Non barrier ( black writing on non barrier and its cheaper ) Non barrier lets oxygen molecule in and the inside of rads corrodes like mad !!!!!! Blocks 10mm pipe solid , the water looks like oil !
Flushed one last Friday , luckily 15mm pipe so brought it back to life used 3 litres of inhibitor on completion but no guarantee !

 

[Gray0689]

You can get barrier or Non barrier ( black writing on non barrier and its cheaper ) Non barrier lets oxygen molecule in and the inside of rads corrodes like mad !!!!!! Blocks 10mm pipe solid , the water looks like oil !
Flushed one last Friday , luckily 15mm pipe so brought it back to life used 3 litres of inhibitor on completion but no guarantee !

Never seen it before

 

[tamz]

Never seen it before

It is sold to be used on plumbing only but the cheapskates use it to save a couple of quid. As there is no oxygen barrier it can sludge up pretty badly.

To the OP
As said before it is highly unlikely it will need a powerflush.
Have you actually seen the colour of the system water or are you just going on what you have been told. Some of the big gas players use it as an excuse for everything when most times it is not needed.

Potterton do fixed fee repairs if you don't know/trust anyone local you can use

Link
[DLMURL="http://www.potterton.co.uk/117.htm"]Potterton[/DLMURL]

 

[denyason]

the evidence is black water, cold spots on radiators and my combi boiler cuts out- heating and water don't work together, so either water or heating. when its heating, it will cut off after an hour- something to do with pressure or the sludge possibly.
not new system- it came with the house, 5 yr old new build. but recently added a large radiator from an extention.
the initial problem was fixing a valve- to controll 2 independent thermostats; one for living, one for sleeping. only one thermostat communicated with the boiler so only downstairs had heat and upstairs nothing.

 

[Gray0689]

the evidence is black water, cold spots on radiators and my combi boiler cuts out- heating and water don't work together, so either water or heating. when its heating, it will cut off after an hour- something to do with pressure or the sludge possibly.
not new system- it came with the house, 5 yr old new build. but recently added a large radiator from an extention.
the initial problem was fixing a valve- to controll 2 independent thermostats; one for living, one for sleeping. only one thermostat communicated with the boiler so only downstairs had heat and upstairs nothing.

Yes sounds like it's sludge but after 5 years is ridiculous
Ifit is this non barrier pipe you got a long term problem

 

[tamz]

Sounds like you would be better off long term repiping the lot

 

[justlead1]

Hi. Although this is something i know little about. Flushing systems seems to have become an industry, surely system materials and design account for this. Has any one considered changing the medium used to fill closed circuit heating systems? That is not water based.

 

[Gray0689]

Sounds like you would be better off long term repiping the lot

I agree with tamz

 

[Bernie2]

The thing is the black sludge is called magnetite, which in simple terms is steel rusting. But to get it to rust you usually need air getting into the system. Its a sealed system "So where is the air coming from?"

Sure enough water itself contains some air, but possibly not enough to rust the system that quick. So where else?

Sure flux and wire wool left in the system when first filled can cause problems, after all flux is intended to clean metal, which basically means it eats into its surface, which in turn can advance the rust process or perhaps help what little air there may be in the system rust it quicker.

You would be talking about a lot of rust to cause blockages though. So where would lots of air get in?

Well the main culprit seems to be the plastic pipe. If you get a microscope and look at the walls of a plastic pipe you will probably see its full of tiny holes which let air molecules in, but not the bigger water molecules out.

That is not what you want on a central heating system.

So they paste a barrier substance over the pipe to fill the holes up, a sort of plastic Polyfilla if you like or a bit like fibreglass resin pasted over fibreglass matting. So the pasted pipe is known as barrier pipe.

Problem is you can't really do much about it, if none barrier pipe has been used as Tamz says, except replace it or face the prospect of radiators wearing out very quickly after all its probably the steel they are made of that is the magnetite, in other words it could be liquid radiators your pouring down the drain.

As to the flushing, its relatively easy you have just got to make sure you flush out everywhere. That description on the other website is good. But I would find out why its rusting so quick first.

 

[GrahamM]

Some confusion over what is barrier pipe here.

Barrier pipe is basically 2 layers of plastic pipe with another non-permeable layer in-between, some kind of resin stuff. It is essentially a sandwich of 3 layers. If you look at the pipe end on you can normally see these different layers. It is non-porous and usually rated to higher temperature than standard pipe.

Standard pipe should never be used on a heating system as mentioned before it is porous, and there is good chance you will get problems later on. After all there is only 10-20 pence per meter difference for the barrier.

 

[Toddyplumb]

The confusion comes from the manufacture ,the non barrier used to say on it Hot Cold and Central heating. They have a lot to answer for