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Discuss Plumber left us with no downstairs heating - recourse action? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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knightime

Hi there,

A quick back story - we called in a local plumber to replace 3 rads upstairs, and to perform a power flush as the downastairs rads were taking around 1.5hrs to heat up after putting the central heating on. We moved into our property in 2k and have always had this issue with the downstairs rads.

They came in, replaced the rads, power flushed the system, turned on the central heating and the downstairs rads failed to heat - I mean stone cold - none of the flow and return pipes were warm.

They came in a few days later as they said it must be a blockage in the pipework somewhere. They cut out a couple of tee sections, one downstairs near the flow/return in the kitchen, and one upstairs on the landing. They fired up the boiler, and the downstairs rads came on. However the chap working on it said he wasn't happy with the heat being produced so cut out another tee section, just outside the dining room. In the meantime the owner arrived, and proceeded to remove redundant pipework from upstairs (our old immersion tank central heating system was replaced by a condensing combi boiler around 4 years ago). When they once again refilled the system and put on the central heating none of the rads downstairs came on.

The owner returned around a week later as he said there was probably something wrong with the boiler - he cleaned something in it (I can't recall what), but this didn't work. He then said it was more than likely the heat plate exchange for the central heating, which would literally mean a new boiler, or replace all the pipework in the house.

My wife and I discussed this, then she asked him to return to discuss further. Another week later he returned, and unbelievably the heating came on for the first time in over 3 weeks (sods law - I'd been turning rads on one by one, sometimes 2 on/2 off, all sorts of combinations, so I'm guessing it dislodged something?), but it only ever came on the day he came to discuss the boiler/pipe replacement issue - since then nothing.

We've now received a quote for £1.7k to replace the pipework, or if we don't we'll have to pay £350 for the investigative work for the heating not coming on downstairs.

My question is - is this normal? Can a plumber come to perform a job and leave a household in a worse position than when they came, and then charge extra to remedy what they initially messed up? Or is this something to be expected with work of this type? Are we allowed to complain to anyone?

We're now in a position of having to look for the money to get the pipework done, but would like some advice before making our decision.

Sorry for the long post - any advice offered would be greatly appreciated!
 
You have a non-obvious kind of problem. The plumbers have spent time and effort trying to resolve it with some success at least. Should they work and supply materials for free?

As I read it, they've offered you a price to rectify, in which case they're waiving the cost of investigative work. Or, if you choose not to have the job done then they're asking to be paid for time spent thus far. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me...
 
When they returned the first time, did they try shutting off the upstairs rads before adjusting the pipework? If the downstairs rads always got warm then they should still get warm with new rads upstairs. Are the new rads a lot bigger?
 
Thanks Masood for your reply. I understand what you say about working for free, but the fact is that our heating worked (albeit inefficiently) before they came and replaced 3 rads and flushed the system out. When they left we had - and still have - 2 stonecold downstairs rads. The Plumber said we wouldn't be charged for the day they came back and investigated but has now gone back on his word.
 
Thanks for your reply walterwhite. I'm sure they did. The 3 rads that were replaced were single finned - the replacements are double finned but roughly the same size in length. Our plumber was saying we have old 15mm pipework throughout the house, and it shoud be 22mm.

What I can't get my head around is that one time the owner came round and the rads downstairs came on - boiling hot flow and return pipes (I did have one of the new bigger rads turned off at the time). Nothing since then. I'm thinking that the powerflush has made a pipework issue worse instead of better, but I'm not a professional so have to take their word for it.

What's even more dissapointing however, is that the owner doesn't actually know what the issue is. So we're faced with the prospect of paying £1.7k for work that may not even fix the problem they caused (and cause it they did - the heating may not have been efficient before they arived, but it was working). That doesn't seem fair to me.
 
Also, if all rads upstairs are turned off the downstairs still doesn't come on. Actually, over the last couple days the downstairs one in the hallway has started to come on - not boiling hot, but on. It's really the ones in the lounge and dining room that are stone cold :confused5:.
 
Why not get a second opinion from a local company. Or put an ad here...[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]

Very difficult to say without being there to see the system but I'd be amazed if it's a major pipework issue. If it was micro bore pipework then it would've been more likely in my opinion.
 
Problem is...they've complicated it by altering pipework. I would have got it going as it was before, with rads downstairs not great & then quoted to look at pipework etc
 
In all fairness to the bloke he has tried and if he hasn't charged you for the work he has done since the flush then he has done what he needs too.

You say that he has left you in a worse position but you also say that you have had a problem since you moved in 15 years ago so there is always the possibility of doing something and making the problem worse.

No he has come up with 2 options then you can make a choice between the 2 or get someone else in.

The rads may have been oversized for the pipe work but if the others don't work with the new rads turned off that is not the problem.
 
Id be very surprised if they have made anysort of claim to offer 100% success.
95% of all pipework is hidden under the floor usually and could have been installed incorrectly by a muppet.
By your own decleration they have never worked to your satisfaction.
And consequently jobs like this including flushing are never guaranteed to work and are often undertaken on a 'best endeavours' basis.


Why do you feel you deserve the endeavours of the people you called for free ???
 
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Thanks for all your replies, think we're just gonna have to get him in to do pipes otherwise we've got to pay someone else to do it, but also pay him this extra bill aswell. Financially it's the only option, fingers x'd it solves the problem. Cheers!
 
By the way newcastle phill, we don't feel we 'deserve the endeavours of the people we called for free', it was him that originally said it was for free!
 
Other things to look at before cutting out pipework. Do the rads have thermostatics? Have the ground floor rads been isolated and water drawn through valves on flow and return?

Get another guy to have a look.
 
By the way newcastle phill, we don't feel we 'deserve the endeavours of the people we called for free', it was him that originally said it was for free!
So why do you feel you need recourse for something that was free ???

Unless ive missed something - did he powerflush for free ?? - sorry I don't spend ages reading the fine detail may have mis-read
 
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This is a difficult one to comment on without seeing the house ! what is the total number of radiators in your house ? Do you know if boiler is producing enough heat ? (What Boiler do you have ?) What size and length of pipe runs ? as you see lots of things to take into account, How much of the pipework are they going to replace for £1.7K just the downstairs ? or full house ?
 
Several times "We" and "The owner" have been mentioned. Makes it sound as though you're renting the property or am I missing something?
 
I took it as the owner of the plumbing company, could be wrong though.
 
Sounds to me like they've tried there best without spending all of your money but as recommended by them that pipe work needs to be redone completely,

If your not happy get a second opinion
 
I took it as the owner of the plumbing company, could be wrong though.

You're probably right, if it's how I'd read it first time round that would change everything.
 
Sounds to me that the plumbing company is bending over backwards on this one. There's always going to be the rare occasion where we cannot make a silk purse out of a pigs ear and turn it instead into a pigs bottom.

I think you've been treated more than fairly to be honest, it would be churlish to go to someone else now.
 
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