promoting illegal gas work?

[skowi187]

Does anybody else feel that having to pay nearly £500 to register for the first time "up front" is basically condoning illegal gas work. For instance i am 21 and have worked for 2 companies over the last 5 years but the last one hit financial difficulties due to non payers etc. and had to reduce the amount of employees it had. Now for someone like me who has bills to pay i simply cannot afford to pay the fee in a bulk sum. I cant find work where i live at all as its only a small town and there are no larger companies around. The only way i see myself remaining within the industry is to become self-employed/Sub-contracted. When i phoned gas safe register and explained my situation moneywise they said there was nothing they could do to help. Not even staggered payments throughout the year/direct debit etc. What sort of stupid idea is this? Its not hard to work out that if people are trying to start up their own buisness they most probably, will be on a tight budget? I have a van already and some basic tools that will have to do for the time being. Due to the credit crunch, which is of no fault of mine, every bank in the country has laughed at the prospect of giving me a start up loan etc.
Anyway back to my original point. the only way i can see me getting the money to pay for the registration is to do a central heating job and pay it out of that. that of course would be illegal. but thats the way the Register is making the cookie crumble. i am fully competent and confident in my abilities. also its not as if i am deliberatly disregarding the idea of being registered like many others out there. i just simply cant afford that sort of money when im not working. How can they justify not using direct debit? just about everything in the world (bar penny sweets) can be paid for by direct debit in this day in age?
so what do u think am i right or wrong in my way of thinking?

 

[migoplumber]

your thoughts are right, and very annoying, not just to you, but to many people myself included.
problem is that gas safe are a monopoly and basically can do as they wish.
the hse decides who is the body that we have to register with.
it has to be a monopoly so the public dont get confused over who they should ring for gas work.
personally i think the changeover from corgi to gas safe was dealt with badly, and i would like to see the whole theme of the monies involved changed radically, but whilst there is only one company allowed to be involved and designated by a few certain people, you dont need to be a masterchef to know whats really going on.

as for doing one "illegal" job to pay for it, who is to say after completing one you wouldnt get "greedy" and just squeeze in another job, then another one?

rules are the rules, and we havnt got much choice in following them.
on the otherhand, it would be interesting to see you charged (with not being a member of a governing body) whilst doing gas work, being totally competent as you are.
if you were to be charged i imagine half the gas fitters in the uk being up in arms and protesting.

the whole thing needs to be looked at again, not by blokes in suits earning more money in a day, than us in a month, but by real people, whose real intention is to stop dangerous gas fitters from working on gas, and not to find an easy way to earn money by charging the majority of law abiding gas fitters the earth, who are sick to death of being charged left right and centre for trying to earn a decent living, whilst working their hearts out.

 

[radswilldo]

Stop moaning and say hello to the realities of life, we've all been there. If you cant get the capital togeather for your registration, I dont know how you will survive the first two years as self employed. Pull yourself togeather and start thinking ahead.

 

[newbie1]

you knew the score when you took the course why whine now,,you sound like the people who drive around without insurance bleating its too expensive but expect everyone elso to stump up for the shortfall

 

[skowi187]

its not a case of "you knew the score" i wanted to be a gas fitter so instead of lazing around like the majority of 16 year olds i went and got myself a trade of which i am proud and worked hard to get where i am today just like every one else. That wasnt my point. My point was about the ridiculous idea of not being able to pay in installments for registration. I would never condone illegal gas work as i happened to lose a good friend in a carbon monoxide incident while i was in school due to a cowboy fitter (and he was corgi!). therefore i would not carry out any work i did not feel entirely comfortable about. i once saw an episode of rogue traders where a young lad was in a similar situation and was trying to raise the funds to register and was cought out but all the work was being done according to the standards etc. All he got was letter from corgi saying he had to register with them immediately before continuing.I think this is acceptable they couldnt possibly prove incompetency since the lad had passed all his assessments and been throught the whole 5 year apprenticeship scheme.
i too would like to see what would happen if your evidence to the courts was that the price was simply too high and as long as you could prove you had no money at all before you did the job, I think they would be in a difficult position and it may even bring to light the extortionate prices engineers have to pay. You have to remember we are talking about a person who could and would be registered if they could afford the fee. Did you used to be able to pay by direct debit with corgi? i thought you could but it could just be me?
And by assuming that i wouldnt have insurance then your just having digs mate because its only 200 quid and YOU CAN PAY IT BY DIRECT DEBIT!
unfortunately i am not in a position to be able to pay for things on the spot like you. i know as soon as i started trading things would be ok i have jobs that people want me to do registered or not but i dont want to start my buisness illegally to be honest. im merely trying to point out that people could do with a hand getting started from G.S.R. rather than them saying there was nothing they could do. Its not like i didnt enquire about how i could make this work.

 

[Puddle]

As said,if you are going self employed,you will not last long winging like you are,£500 is not even a tenner a week over a year,cheap at half the price,time for you to join the real world!!

 

[stevetheplumber]

every one i biuisness has done something a bit dodgy at some time to get them selves started the richer they are they dodgier the deeds done
just look where mandelson is now

what ****es me of about the pricing structure is the larger the company the cheaper it is why should BG get there registrations done for a fraction of the cost of mine

 

[david williams]

what makes you all so surprised about the cost,its not about safety,its about money,how many unregisterd gas fitters are taken to court??against how meny registered gas fitters,??the latter because its easier to track the registered and get heavy fines off of them.and letts not forget jobs for the boys.

 

[hamish72]

Its a fact of life that the reasonable and fair person will me hammered because the powers that be know they will toe the line and pay up whilst the criminals, con men, and social miss-fits are left alone because they are trouble and of course will not pay up if fined

 

[Winston]

I cant believe you cant pay for your registration by Direct debit. Why dont you start up but doing non gas plumbing until you have built up the funds for you then to register? Good luck anyway

 

[dontknowitall]

Being a new business, you could try Business Link as they come across all sorts of funding issues. Also the Prince of Wales Trust just might be able to assist. Does your council have a department to help small businesses?

Hope you can sort it quickly.

For those who are older, remember if your parents/family haven't got the money and are low earners, £500 is a large sum if you've just left school and have no savings.

Good luck Skowi.

 

[GasPlumberEssex]

Pay with credit card or overdraft. You can make it back in 2-4 days once registered.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

The costs involved in gas work are escalating beyond reasonable, and in turn I suppose pushing up gas work prices to the public. Which basically, would seem silly if its about and should be about gas safety, not a scheme that makes gas work prices high.

I would make Gas Safe registration free and put a £100 ceiling on all ACS gas course prices the core Safety course being free, with of course an ability to spread payments.

There by opening the industry up for gas fitters who can then charge reasonable prices because their outlay is not so high. Coupled with high fines for unregistered gas work, that way it would not be worth doing gas work if your not safety checked and registered.

 

[newbie1]

Hmm!

The costs involved in gas work are escalating beyond reasonable, and in turn I suppose pushing up gas work prices to the public. Which basically, would seem silly if its about and should be about gas safety, not a scheme that makes gas work prices high.

I would make Gas Safe registration free and put a £100 ceiling on all ACS gas course prices the core Safety course being free, with of course an ability to spread payments.

There by opening the industry up for gas fitters who can then charge reasonable prices because their outlay is not so high. Coupled with high fines for unregistered gas work, that way it would not be worth doing gas work if your not safety checked and registered.

nothing is free bernie who would subsidise the cost of core gas safety and how would they justify not offering the same for plumbing /sparkies in fact any thing where you have to pay to train
yes its expensive but everyone has a choice they dont have to do gas fitting
choose electrics/plastering/tiling in fact any trade thats the thing everyone has a choice its no good choosing it then whining

 

[Bernie2]

Hi! Newbie, I take your point but feel its not only about price but safety and opportunity for all.

What if they charged £1000 for a copy of the highway code and the same for a driving test?

Why should people be barred from becoming gas fitters because they can't afford it?

We can't go on ring fencing everything with price, we are supposed to be people living together not making money out of each other.

The system worked for years before any of these course costs where brought out. If they wanted to increase safety they should have made it economic to do so.

All we are doing is subsidizing a teaching industry. Which I do not mind, if the prices are reasonable.

But are they?

And anyway the gas and electric industry as a whole makes £billions how about using some of that on training, after all if gas fitters never fitted the appliances who would use their gas?

I don't think there is any reason why this should not happen. At least you may stop people having to pay companies £150 or so for what may just be a £2.50p thermocouple replacement or £10 sensor replacement. Whilst making, free access to safety information and training might make the whole industry safer.

 

[bobski]

bro you got a bed at my house any time.

power to the people

 

[newbie1]

the whole point is no company is going to subsidise the training,why would they its like anything if you want a trade it costs .who would you get to pay as the gas suppliers are not worried how many people train up the manufactures arent as there are more than enough fully trained fitters out there
the thing is like all trades there are no shortages of allready trained workers so nooone is about to dib in to their profits to train people for non existent jobs
to anyone thinking of doing a course think carefully because there really is no shortage of any trades and gas fitters is no different
people are desperate and chasing their dream and the big prices fitters sometime charge just means they wont get used again

 

[johnmcginty]

Is it not also a question of educating the public about the types of work that can be carried out by a non registered engineer , I mean exactly verbalising each specific job. I can't count how many times someone phoned me up for a rad swap or a valve swap and asked if I was corgi registered. Just food for thought ........maybe another tv add

 

[quality]

Yes your dead right there about folk thinking he`s corgi/gas safe registered he must be good plumber. I must stress that I am gas safe and Oftec but I don`t consider myself a plumber, it is part of my work area that I have to registered for to work on such equipment

 

[Flanners]

I agree in everything gas safe. If someone said to you give me £500 and ill give you £10000 in return what would you do?.....break you back finding that money.

Gas safe is also an advert. Filling your customers with confidence in your abilities. This is what they pay for.
Its a sign that you have taken your tests, completed your course and been deemed a competent engineer.
This is what they pay for.
The luxury of sleeping at night without worrying wheather they have saved money at the cost of there lives?
This is what they pay for.
The luxury for you to sleep at night knowing that you have carried out the job safely and to the best of your ability, thus giving your customers a good service and possible repeat businesses.
THIS IS WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!

Find the money and enjoy the fruits of your labour my friend!

 

[Beeline]

every one i biuisness has done something a bit dodgy at some time to get them selves started the richer they are they dodgier the deeds done
just look where mandelson is now

what ****es me of about the pricing structure is the larger the company the cheaper it is why should BG get there registrations done for a fraction of the cost of mine

BG and Centrica are the same people "almost", check google, i think that might answer your question.
GSR should be a service, not a business. Costs to register should never be partly to line pockets. They should wholly go towards providing support to us, and gaining 100% recognition of the brand.
I reckon for me about 90% of new customers still say CORGI FFS!
If i spent what i paid for registering on a GSR ad in my local paper i would get a much better result than they do with thier multinational infrastructure.
Damn capitalism to hell!

 

[migoplumber]

ive just written them a letter, stating clearly my qualifications, showing my gas safe registration serial number (through my employer) stating my intention to work on gas appliances, and the fact that i am not willing to pay so much extra for doing so. will post the reply when it arrives if ever.

 

[Plouasne]

BG, and Centrica are one and the same animal, Gas Safe is administered by Capita for the HSE, google capita, and see if you come to the same conclusion as I have about them, for what its worth I think that they are a load of sharks who brought the job from the government by bunging the labour party a million quid, and want to get the money back from the gas safe fees

But lets have your comments on what I have posted below


1) All gas boilers, cookers, and fires, have a 1% tariff on them, to help pay training costs, and inspections

2) All the above appliances to be bar coded at works, with the bar code registered at gas safe

3) The bar code is the link when the appliance is sold on to the final user

4) Gas safe uses the bar code to tie-in the appliance and installer, and also the land lords certificate, etc, it could also be used for safety recalls etc


My reasoning is that if the UK can ear tag every farm animal for traceability, (this is an EU wide regulation, and for meat animals, it goes from birth to the end butcher, so that the animal can be traced right through the food chain) it should be a fairly simple operation to do this for gas appliances

The way it would work

When an appliance is sold from works to wholesaler, the bar code is scanned in and sent electronically to gas safe, the same for wholesaler to retail/trade seller

With the retail/trade seller it would be slightly different; for a trade purchaser who was gas safe, the appliance bar code and the gas safe installer's bar code (on his ticket) would be combined (to link appliance and fitter), If the person was not gas safe registered, a verifiable name and address would have to be provided before sale, the name and address together with the bar code of the appliance, would be sent on to gas safe

Appliances sold to a person not on the register would be the first subject to inspection, then the gas safe probationers next in line for inspection

Any person who refuses to allow a gas safe inspection to be carried out would have the supply disconnected or be banned from having any more LPG supplies, until the installation was inspected and found to be to the current standards

The property owner should also have a copy of the inspection report, which should be kept on file, and be produced if requested by a gas safe person, together with any other gas work documentation, (work carried out after the last inspection)

 

[radswilldo]

I agree with Jean-Claude