REPLACING OLD RADIATORSn

[GIBBERS]

I replaced an oil boiler 18 months ago and at a recent service it was over 98% efficiency so well pleased.

System is sealed at 1 bar. Recently I had a huge pressure drop located to a leaking joint at a radiator - water loss went down a redundant under floor heating duct so was not at all apparent.

The property is a 4 bed long bungalow with two receptions, kitchen, bathroom and second toilet. The system is piped all above ground with a mixture of micro bore and normal pipes with TRV on most rads.

The heating engineer suggested the old TRVs need replacing - they are old and prone to sticking so he is right on this I think - and at the same time he suggested replacing most rads. There are 2 rads under 10 years old which will stay. The rads to replace are 2 at 24 years of age and 4 which are imperial size and in place when we bought the property 25 years ago so age unknown so 6 in total.

The cost of all this - to include fitting a fire valve not present (!) + the radiator leak repair already done + re charge inhibitor will be near £1,000,

The engineer said he will need to adjust the piping to make all rad connections full size so he will solder adaptors to all micro bore connections to uplift the size. There is some minor weeping at a couple of micro bore connections which the engineer was afraid to tighten in case the joint was made worse. I was told that the side mounted TRVs that I have are no longer used and that they are now upright and that there is a need to change the rads in order that any valves etc can be easily replaced using modern connections. I do not really follow this.

The engineer charged £97 for the service to include a new burner so he seems pretty fair. I can see a reason for changing 25 year old rads with new connections to avoid future leaks but I am a little unsure as to the references to rads so that we have valves etc of modern sizes and easy to maintain. I may not have fully understood this,

Should I replace just the old TRVs or is the engineer correct in suggesting new rads as well ? The cost of it all at £1,000 seems OK ?

The engineer s Vat registered so all figures are inc Vat.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[Gray0689]

Do you trust your plumber obviously not
Look the plumber has seen the job we haven't we don't know what is needed we can't see the size of rads we can't see the work entailed in fixing leaks
So unless your looking a second price on job sorry but can't comment
But if you post your area there maybe a forum member near you that could see the job and give you a second price

 

[fuzzy]

sounds like an upgrade, without seeing it i cannot say if this is need or essential or not. sounds wise if nothing else though, as gray says trust him or not?

 

[marleyco]

I can't see the point in increasing the pipe size at the radiator's when the flow and return pipe's are small bore. The trv's are prone to blocking, sticking etc. Renew valves as a minimum, slight alteration of pipework may be needed. If you can afford it I'd change the radiator's as they will be past their best and can pin hole, also new radiator's will be more efficient. PRice is hard to say as don't the size of radiator's and exact work entailed,

 

[SimonG]

Interested to know what oil boiler you have running at 98% efficiency!

As for the remainder, get a couple more opinions, as said post your location as somebody maybe close to offer that second/third opinion.

 

[davebigpipes]

Assuming that your rads are of a decent size that seems like a very good price really.

And is that boiler running at that efficientcy for about 3 mins while it heats past 50 odd Deg c?

 

[Gray0689]

That will be gross simon

 

[Best]

Can't understand why the rads have to be changed, so that the TRVs will have modern connections? The price sounds cheap, but depends on size of rads. £97 for servicing a fairly new oil boiler is a lot by my standards, but proper engineer has his analyser, tools, qualifications costs to be fair. The 98% eff quoted is what some oil boilers are supposed to be, but over the entire year are average 93%. Just because the engineer seems cheap doesn't mean he is good, so if you doubt him get a second opinion.

 

[GIBBERS]

Thanks for the comment

It is not a question of trusting the engineer or not - he is new to me so I do not know him from Adam but he does some work for a friend.

I am not one of those that expects a good job at a cheap price. I was just asking an opinion of the guys on this site. Everybody has a right to a living I say.

I am really just asking you helpful experts if anything I am being told seems totally implausible.

 

[GIBBERS]

Thanks

I will probably go with him - he is new to me and did some work for a friend which was OK.

i am not that price sensitive - I just do not want to pay for work not needed.

 

[GIBBERS]

Can't understand why the rads have to be changed, so that the TRVs will have modern connections? The price sounds cheap, but depends on size of rads. £97 for servicing a fairly new oil boiler is a lot by my standards, but proper engineer has his analyser, tools, qualifications costs to be fair. The 98% eff quoted is what some oil boilers are supposed to be, but over the entire year are average 93%. Just because the engineer seems cheap doesn't mean he is good, so if you doubt him get a second opinion.

Many thanks Best - I am not that price sensitive - I just want the work done at a fair price assuming it needs doing. Nothing posted here would indicate my new engineer is being unfair so I will probably go with it.

 

[GIBBERS]

I can't see the point in increasing the pipe size at the radiator's when the flow and return pipe's are small bore. The trv's are prone to blocking, sticking etc. Renew valves as a minimum, slight alteration of pipework may be needed. If you can afford it I'd change the radiator's as they will be past their best and can pin hole, also new radiator's will be more efficient. PRice is hard to say as don't the size of radiator's and exact work entailed,

Thanks Marleyco - I think I will change the rads while the system is down. Engineer seems a nice enough chap and I am not really looking for a cheap job by some cowboy. I do not really know the engineer except on one recommendation. I just wanted to see if you experts had any opinions as I am not a CH expert at all.

The rads are not huge but I realise that you cannot comment on price. I do not think that a grand - £850 ex vat - is that bad for about 10 - 12 hours labour for each of two guys plus all the parts.

General comment to all the professionals who responded - VERY MANY THANKS.

General comment to members of the public - these guys need to earn a living and they have overheads. You will not get a tradesman at labourer rats so BEWARE VERY CHEAP QUOTES. If you pay too much you have lost a little money - if you pay too little you may lose even more putting it all right.

I am a Chartered Accountant - I know what CH engineers make - what with all the cost of regulation/insurance/tools/non paying customers and it aint a fortune.

 

[Best]

Changing to nice, white, modern rads with convector fins & new valves usually enhances the look of each room & can help the rooms heat faster ( & more heat if old were under powered or dirty inside), so £1000 might be well worth it & they should last for years.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i agree looks to be a very good price for the job

 

[davebigpipes]

Just be thankfull you ain't got a Mrs like mine who had me replace new rads with 300 quid each designer looking ones

 

[GIBBERS]

Thanks Best - I will go with it,

 

[GIBBERS]

i agree looks to be a very good price for the job

Thanks. The engineer seems OK - never needs to advertise and trundles around in a decent sign written van. As long as the price is OK I am not bothered about £100 or so either way. As I said - pay too little and you get what you pay for - usually not what you wanted.

 

[GIBBERS]

Just be thankfull you ain't got a Mrs like mine who had me replace new rads with 300 quid each designer looking ones

You need to get her under control - not easy though is it ?

 

[southcoastboile]

another bonus to getting the rads changed is that rads of that age start to break up inside and the magnatite floats around the system causing problems.

 

[GIBBERS]

another bonus to getting the rads changed is that rads of that age start to break up inside and the magnatite floats around the system causing problems.

Once again thanks to all you professionals. Your advice has been brilliant and confirmed that I would be foolish to just replace TRV valves. Some rads are imperial and quite a few rad connections need re-doing so at about £850 plus Vat it seems OK.