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Discuss syphonic double trap toilet. in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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spooney54

hi there,
Im wanting to get a better understading of how the syphonic double trap
toilet works.
I.E how the negative pressure between the two traps comes about?
How exactly does the aspirator bomb operate?
Are there any web site that may show sketches,or give explanation, etc?
I may have one to repair.
Any advice appreciated. thank you.
 
Thanks for info. cj uk. Still would Like more detailed info about the action of the aspirator bomb if possible.
 
First of all if they are broken it will look like a blocked loo, so look at the trap and see if it is syphonic , it will be visibly higher up and when flushed the water will appear to be sucked out like on a plane. This is because water is going down the second chamber and out down the soil pipe, as this happens it syphonically sucks the water and waste out of the first visible trap. water then fills up the first trap from behind and the front. if you need to fix one nowadays you need a turbo 88 syphon and a syvac aspirator or replacement washer both are available from toolstation. Can be a bit of a ball ache, make sure the washer on the bottom of the aspirator gets pushed up the spout slowly when you are putting the cistern back on.
 
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Thanks a lot leedsplumber.The problem seems there is only very light suction there,but the toilet eventually clears. I have bee told it could just be a worn seal at the bottom of the aspirator.Are these seals available on there own?
 
Yes mate it is called an aspirator washer just pop out the cistern and swap it over like I said though pop it on and slowly lower the cistern back on doughnut. As you will see from the picture you can see why it is caled a bomb as looks like an atom bomb
Toolstation > Plumbing > Toilet Fittings > Syvac Washer
 
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Interesting,

Just out of interest John, why would you need to use a Dudley turbo 88 syphon and not a normal one?

Any syphonic toilets I rip out I always keep the cistern guts for spares but I will use a new turbo 88 if they would work.

Is it because the aspirator fits into the bottom on an 88?
 
hi there,
Im wanting to get a better understading of how the syphonic double trap
toilet works.
I.E how the negative pressure between the two traps comes about?
How exactly does the aspirator bomb operate?
Are there any web site that may show sketches,or give explanation, etc?
I may have one to repair.
Any advice appreciated. thank you.

The negative pressure between the 2 water seals is caused by the aspirator which as the name implies sucks out the air from the space between the two traps . The aspirator is a venturi device which as the water from the flush goes through it sucks out the air causing reduced pressure. so id the seal is damage it will not work. There are other types of siphonic pan which have a smaller diameter outlet which creates a siphon effect (self-siphonage)
 
Interesting,

Just out of interest John, why would you need to use a Dudley turbo 88 syphon and not a normal one?

Any syphonic toilets I rip out I always keep the cistern guts for spares but I will use a new turbo 88 if they would work.

Is it because the aspirator fits into the bottom on an 88?

Thats exactly it yes it wont fit into a normal one like an opella , I think that one anyway is made by the same company .
 
Hi TGOR,
So are you saying that as the water flows down from the syphon in to the pan through the rim,this causes a sucking type of action and sucks air up through the tube creating a vacuum between the two traps momentarily, then releases the suction when water empties from the syphon. (sorry if i sound a bit thick on this one)
 
Thanks a lot TGOR.
I'll be able to drink my J.S in peace now
without trying to think that one out.
SORTED


(A problem shared is a problem halved)
 
As just a simple two-dimensional electronic engineer I am now completely confused!!!!
Is there a (simple) drawing of the innards of this abomination; siphons, traps, (bombs, aspirated or otherwise) to enable an understanding of how it works?
I now have The Flushing Problem with one. The handle came off the lift plunger thingy so I had to take off the tank to get at the insides of the siphon; since then it has not worked! I have replaced the donut and clamped the tank down hard onto it but NFG. Obviously my fault but how?
Thanks....
 
Hi Leon,
I dont know where you can find a really good explanitory drawing.(tried myself)
Make sure the syphon diaphragm is not split/damaged.Is the cistern water level o.k. Is C link set right.
Is the bomb still on the aspirator when you refitted the cistern.(as well as the donut ring).
Screw fix site will show you what the aspirator should look like.
I was advised a new turbo syphon and aspirator/bomb makes a good job on these systems
but have not tried it myself.

Other members on this site may well be able to help you.
Good luck mate. :frown2:
 
Cistern water level is as before and flushing moves all the water out of the tank. Still trying to find what bombs and aspirators etc are....!
I did not see anything different when I dissassembled the tank gear and thought I had done the Hains manual thing ok; Reassembly is the reverse of dissassembly!!
Will check out ScrewFix. Thanks for the tip!
 
Hi Leon,
I dont know where you can find a really good explanitory drawing.(tried myself)
Make sure the syphon diaphragm is not split/damaged.Is the cistern water level o.k. Is C link set right.
Is the bomb still on the aspirator when you refitted the cistern.(as well as the donut
ring).
Screw fix site will show you what the aspirator should look like.
I was advised a new turbo syphon and aspirator/bomb makes a good job on these systems
but have not tried it myself.

Other members on this site may well be able to help you.
Good luck mate. :frown2:

There's a decent drawing on google images. syphonic double trap toilet
 
Found it! Thanks.
Can you, or anybody, tell me who makes these things?
The manufacturers might have some Special Tricks!
 
There's another older thread mate

Just search in the bar at the top of the page for 'Syphonic wc' or 'Aspirator'


:rockon2:
 
Hi Leon,
Syvac aspirator and seal at tool station

part no.91249 ÂŁ14.26
Seal Part no.16760 ÂŁ4.06
 
I'm still trying to understand this thing!
Question: If I replaced the tank with a large funnel and poured two galls in fast, would it flush the pan ok and if not why not!!??
 
I have read and mostly understood the thread so far, but I wonder if anyone can assist me in a similar problem. I have a syphonic double trap, which has an asprator fitted. I decided to fit a fluidmaster flapper type valve. This is not compatable with the old airex aspirator, and thus the bowl fills.
I am trying to do away with seperate overflow pipe, and as the flapper overflows to the pan this would seem the ideal way.
Could anyone recommend any other that works with syphonic, and has no overflow, except to the pan.
Thanks in advance
 
You can get some Syphons that overflow into the pan - I assume they'd work with a syphonic toilet but couldnt swear to it.

It might be easier to change the whole toilet - can pick them up for about ÂŁ60.
 
Thanks, I was hoping to keep old pan , as it is fine, and very quiet flush.
Have looked at toolstation, they have a number of syphons, but unsure which are compatable with syphonic, and over flow into pan. Any educated guesses please?

Thanks
 
Thanks Gordon, have understood that, all I need now is to find an aspirator to suit flap valve, or something that has integral overflow, works with double trap cistern
 
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