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Timer Firing Up Boiler for Water, not for Heating

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Mark Walsham

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Hi everyone,

I have a Climote (but re-badged by Scottish Electric) timer, which I think has developed a fault, and need some advice as I have a problem.

First off, I have a Valiant traditional boiler, pressure good, power good and regular servicing. I note that when I ask the Climote for HW, the boiler fires up, lights and starts to heat the water.

If I try the same for Heating, and the Climote says it is on, but nothing happens on the boiler at all.

I have checked the external thermostat, and it is reporting 10dg lower temp than the target temp - so I don't think it is that.

Any ideas what this might be. Have reset the timer, checked the boiler pressure and power and all seems good.

Appreciate any thoughts or ideas.

Cheers, Mark.
 
Hello, - do you have any motorised valves (zone valves)? A motorised valve for radiators could have failed and can be manually switched on with the lever slide button.
Check if you have a zone thermostat, (often wall mounted) that it is at correct temperature.
 
Best said:
Hello, - do you have any motorised valves (zone valves)? A motorised valve for radiators could have failed and can be manually switched on with the lever slide button.
Check if you have a zone thermostat, (often wall mounted) that it is at correct temperature.
Click to expand...

I will re-check the zone thermostat tomorrow in the day light, but when I check it via the app, it seems to be reporting the right temp (17deg), but will check it. I will also check the airing cupboard for the diverter valve too, and from memory it is the usual electro-magnetic type, with a manual override.

Again - thanks - I had assumed that regardless of the pump or diverter working, the boiler would fire up to start the process of heating the water for the system - or am I just being silly (probably)!

Thanks again. Mark.
 
It will look something like his mate but not necessarily exact. You will more then likely find it is not motoring to the heating position and probably needs a new motor fitting.

312CB98F-66E7-440E-AC00-54E8AAEFD71B.png
 
The motorised valve send live back to the boiler. Which then tells the boiler to come on.
 
Mark Walsham said:
I will re-check the zone thermostat tomorrow in the day light, but when I check it via the app, it seems to be reporting the right temp (17deg), but will check it. I will also check the airing cupboard for the diverter valve too, and from memory it is the usual electro-magnetic type, with a manual override.

Again - thanks - I had assumed that regardless of the pump or diverter working, the boiler would fire up to start the process of heating the water for the system - or am I just being silly (probably)!

Thanks again. Mark.
Click to expand...

Usually the motorised valves are actually what puts the power to the boiler, not your programmer or thermostat.
The valve gets power to open from programmer and stat, but the valve has to open fully to operate a micro switch inside it, switching a permanent live to boiler. If there is mechanical or micro switch failure in the valve, then boiler might not work
Edit, Harvest Fields beat me to it, and said it simpler. :)
 
Best said:
Usually the motorised valves are actually what puts the power to the boiler, not your programmer or thermostat.
The valve gets power to open from programmer and stat, but the valve has to open fully to operate a micro switch inside it, switching a permanent live to boiler. If there is mechanical or micro switch failure in the valve, then boiler might not work
Edit, Harvest Fields beat me to it, and said it simpler. :)
Click to expand...
Still an awesome and informative post Best. For me it is normally the other way around. Shaun normally gets there as I’m typing. :p:p
 
Best said:
I typed too much and you then beat me in the race.
Your post is much easier to understand than my rambling.:p
Click to expand...
Too busy for long answers mate. People are lucky to get more then a paragraph out of me normally. :p:p;)
 
I find that if people need more of an explanation they will ask. If not then the mist understand:p:p:p
 
Harvest Fields said:
Still an awesome and informative post Best. For me it is normally the other way around. Shaun normally gets there as I’m typing. :p:p
Click to expand...

:D i was gaming so thats why ;)

and i normally use bullet-points
 
Harvest Fields said:
Blimey. Between gaming and being on here mate. Do you actually get time to do any physical work?:p:p:p
Click to expand...

:D maybe i do maybe i dont ;)

dont you know i won the euro mil a week back im sitting here in spain with a cool 150mil in the bank
 
Harvest Fields said:
It will look something like his mate but not necessarily exact. You will more then likely find it is not motoring to the heating position and probably needs a new motor fitting.

View attachment 31478
Click to expand...

Guys the plot thickens!!

After a good root around the airing cupboard, I did indeed find the motorised diverter valve, but it’s not on a three way valve system, it is just one in one out, and I am 100% certain that this is for the HW only. The motor seems to be working fine, since when calling for HW, the spring loaded arm is loose, and when HW off, the arm is spring loaded (to suggest valve is closed).

So that led me to wonder where the motorised valve was for the CH was, as there appears to be no additional motor or pump in the airing cupboard.

So, back to the boiler, removed the panel below the boiler and found another motorised valve!!! This I was hoping was faulty, but no such luck! When I call for CH, I can hear the motor actuating and the arm goes loose, and when CH off, the arm is sprung again!!!

I set the arm to be always on (locked into the notch) and again, calling for CH does nothing at all!

I should note that I have now discovered that if the HW is on, and I turn the CH on, the radiators start to warm up!!

Help - I am at a loss, as I can’t find the pump, but I assume the pump would not prevent the boiler firing up!!!

Cheers, Mark.
 
Which traditional Vaillant do you have? Also just because the motor moves does not mean it is making the microswitch. When you put the heating on you are listening for a little click at the end. If you are not sure then listen to the hot water one which you know is working and you will hear the click. Do you have a multi meter and are you confident in using one?
 
Harvest Fields said:
Which traditional Vaillant do you have? Also just because the motor moves does not mean it is making the microswitch. When you put the heating on you are listening for a little click at the end. If you are not sure then listen to the hot water one which you know is working and you will hear the click. Do you have a multi meter and are you confident in using one?
Click to expand...

I will check again in the morning as had a few beers and not the best time to do DIY (or is it the best time)?

Yes I do have a multi-meter and am Ok using it, checking for voltage or continuity, so I am guessing I would need to remove the cover of the valve and check the voltages?

The timer once it calls for CH issues a loud click, but not straight after the motor valve moves!!! So I will check!

Cheers, Mark.
 
Ignore the click from the timer for now. It is a little click when the microswitch makes. Also do not take the cover from the motor. Test for the other end of the cable. Should be a junction box?
 
Harvest Fields said:
Ignore the click from the timer for now. It is a little click when the microswitch makes. Also do not take the cover from the motor. Test for the other end of the cable. Should be a junction box?
Click to expand...

Hmmm, the other end of the cable is squirelled behind the partition wall and may be my next mission tomorrow!

I am going to, as suggested, listen to the HW motor valve as I know that is working, and I will do the same for the CH one.

Thanks for the help, and will report back after tomorrow!

Cheers, Mark.
 
Mark Walsham said:
Hmmm, the other end of the cable is squirelled behind the partition wall and may be my next mission tomorrow!

I am going to, as suggested, listen to the HW motor valve as I know that is working, and I will do the same for the CH one.

Thanks for the help, and will report back after tomorrow!

Cheers, Mark.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the wonderful world of Heating & Plumbing.
 
Mark Walsham said:
I have a Climote (but re-badged by Scottish Electric) timer, which I think has developed a fault
Click to expand...


Did it work before on Heating only or could you have only just noticed?
Does it have 10 / 16 program switch on the back? (I can't say I am familiar with Climote Programmers).
 
OK thank everyone so far, I do believe the culprit is the motorised valve under the boiler. I listened to this very carefully this evening, and when calling for CH, I can hear the motor running, but it is very slow. Much slower than when the call for the CH stops.

Additionally, after giving the manual lever a few cycles back and forth into and out of the locked on position, it now seems to work OK when the system calls for CH!!!

So, clearly this is the root of the problem and I am sure sooner or later it is going to give out completely!

Can I replace just the motor housing, motor and associated gubbins or do I need to replace the motor and valve unit?

As a very amateur DIY’er, I am filled with dread on draining the system to replace the valve, so any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks all,

Mark.
 
Best to replace the whole valve and get a gas safe engy in if your unsure
 
More often than not you can replace the motor.

It is 240V so be careful. Fuse pull, don't just switch off.
Always test it is dead, never presume.

I would take the motor out and see how the valve feels first. If it opens and closes nice and smooth and there are no teeth missing you could easily change the motor.

If in doubt, do what Shaun says and swap the valve.
 
Mark Walsham said:
OK thank everyone so far, I do believe the culprit is the motorised valve under the boiler. I listened to this very carefully this evening, and when calling for CH, I can hear the motor running, but it is very slow. Much slower than when the call for the CH stops.

Additionally, after giving the manual lever a few cycles back and forth into and out of the locked on position, it now seems to work OK when the system calls for CH!!!

So, clearly this is the root of the problem and I am sure sooner or later it is going to give out completely!

Can I replace just the motor housing, motor and associated gubbins or do I need to replace the motor and valve unit?

As a very amateur DIY’er, I am filled with dread on draining the system to replace the valve, so any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks all,

Mark.
Click to expand...
Can you post a pic of the valve to see if the head will come off? You cannot remove it on some. How old is the valve? I personally wouldn’t change the whole thing if it is only a couple of years old.
 
Here is a pic of the motorised valve, a Honeywell unit, and for some reason there is no label or serial/model number on the unit! We bought this place about 10 years ago, and I think the boiler is approx 12 years old.

I am reasonably happy to replace the head unit myself as the wiring seems fairly straightforward, but my question is this...

Once the head is off, what is an easy way to check if there is wear to the valve itself?

As if there is wear, I shall get a plumber to come out and replace the head and valve in one go, but I hear that these valves are pretty reliable.

Anyway, as usual, any advice much appreciated!

Cheers, Mark.

102091D0-7789-4CC8-8CC6-6BD501A568D3.jpeg
 
Looking at the location of the valve I would say it looks awkward. I would get someone in to change it for you.
 
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