Waste hose problem for washing machine

[Chrisp1986]

Hi everyone I am needing some advice around a new washing machine. The waste hose as shown is wider than the previous one. I have attempted to remove the attachment where the previous hose went to replace with a larger attachment from screwfix but it seems to be impossible to remove. Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can solve this problem?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

a bit of washing up liquid and some gloves it should go on but the more important thing is the waste outlet is untrapped and this needs sorting eg to install a washing machine stand pipe and trap

 

[Chrisp1986]

Sorry please can you confirm what you mean by untrapped and why it's a problem? I think this is where the waste pipe has always gone for 15 years from what I have been told from previous owner.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

waste gases can come back into the property

 

[Chrisp1986]

Apologies for all the questions, would this mean that a standpipe could be easily fitted where the current lower white segment is screwed in. Would this just unscrew and a stand pipe be screwed in the same place?

 

[Vicdiy]

Apologies for all the questions, would this mean that a standpipe could be easily fitted where the current lower white segment is screwed in. Would this just unscrew and a stand pipe be screwed in the same place?

Normally the outlet from the washing machine hooks over a vertical pipe with a trap at the bottom, the outlet from the trap is the connected to a soil pipe or drain outlet. The trap stops the gases from the soil pipe getting into the house. In your case if the washing machine hose outlet is a tight fit onto the existing pipe ( which it obviously is) then the gases will not get in and this is why it worked ok before.Hose clips can be used to hold it on if it is likely to slip off

 

[CHRISX]

Normally the outlet from the washing machine hooks over a vertical pipe with a trap at the bottom, the outlet from the trap is the connected to a soil pipe or drain outlet. The trap stops the gases from the soil pipe getting into the house. In your case if the washing machine hose outlet is a tight fit onto the existing pipe ( which it obviously is) then the gases will not get in and this is why it worked ok before.Hose clips can be used to hold it on if it is likely to slip off

Hello Vicdiy,

As Member Shaun stated the Washing Machine waste must have a trapped Stand pipe installed for the machine hose to be put into - connecting to the existing piece of pipe is NOT acceptable -irrespective of how many years that it had previously been like that.

You started your message with the correct details about a trapped stand pipe being a correct method for waste water drainage from a Washing Machine - but unfortunately after those details you are advising the OP incorrectly about Drain gases not being able to get in if they use Jubilee / Hose clips on the Washing Machine hose to secure it to the existing pipe.

The gases will then be able to enter the Washing Machine - totally unacceptable !

There was an incorrect assumption by some Plumbers / Kitchen fitters etc. some years ago that water laying at the bottom of a Washing Machine waste water hose after the machine had pumped out formed a `Trap` so there was no need to provide a Stand pipe.

As I wrote this was incorrect and Washing Machines that were connected like that / like the previous machine in this case have had `drain gases` entering the appliance.

Hello Chrisp1986,

You may get some more replies advising you how to connect a trapped Stand pipe for your Washing Machine`s waste hose to be put into - because of the other Waste pipes it should be connected to the Soil pipe [large pipe].

Others may disagree but I would not install a Washing Machine Stand pipe to a vertical waste pipe where there was a chance that 2 other Waste pipes would be discharging at the same time as a Washing Machine.

However unless you are `good at DIY` and because there are 2 Waste pipes already connected to the Soil pipe `strap on` bossed connection - plus the overflow boss connection which will have to be at least capped off or removed - I would advise getting a Plumber to install the trapped Stand pipe etc.

Chris.

 

[Rob Foster]

a bit of washing up liquid and some gloves it should go on but the more important thing is the waste outlet is untrapped and this needs sorting eg to install a washing machine stand pipe and trap

A bit of washing up liquid and some gloves sorts all sorts of problems out I am told

 

[Julie Street]

Replace the white boss arrangement with a tee and a standpipe. You might be able to fix the standpipe to the breeze block.

 

[Ric2013]

2 options as I see it.
1 is, as Chris X say, the proper route: new saddle boss onto the 110mm pipe and install a new washing machine/appliance trap. Probably an hour's work for a plumber.
2 is something I would not bother with as 1 is so easy to do and not really any more work: tee off from that vertical branch, add an appliance trap, and hope you don't have resultant issues.
If you're really skint, try warming the rubber in hot or near boiling water and force that hose over the plastic bit. But it is wrong, for reasons others have stated.

 

[CHRISX]

Replace the white boss arrangement with a tee and a standpipe. You might be able to fix the standpipe to the breeze block.

Hello Julie Street,

Did You read what I wrote about NOT installing a trapped Standpipe as you described ?

That was the `Expert Opinion` of a Professional Plumber.

I should have explained why not - here is the reason:

It is quite feasible that one or both of the waste pipes that are connected together could be discharging just as the Washing Machine is pumping out.

Although what You described would mean that the tee for the Standpipe would be very close to the Soil pipe boss there is a possibility that a `full bore` flow of water from the other 2 waste pipes could restrict the water flow from the Standpipe / Washing Machine coming into the vertical waste pipe causing it to build up within the Standpipe.

For the few seconds that the vertical existing waste pipe is full of water [imagine a full Kitchen Sink and perhaps a Basin emptying / water running] it is possible that the Washing Machine waste water could pump over the top of the Standpipe.

Even pumping over for just a few seconds this could be a significant amount of water overflowing the Standpipe.

Other Members might disagree with this but there are reasons why Professional Plumbers upsize Waste pipes or connect additional Waste pipes directly to a Soil stack / Soil pipe and this circumstance is one of those reasons.

Chris

 

[rpm]

CHRISX, you may be surprised that an open forum allows all to have a voice and the original poster can take or leave opinions as they see fit.
I think you owe Julie an apology for the tone of the first two paragraphs in your post above.

 

[Ric2013]

Agreed, Chris X. I wouldn't personally want to fit a washing machine trap to a shared 1.5" pipe. I have done it on a 2" pipe though. As I said to the OP, at your risk.

 

[CHRISX]

CHRISX, you may be surprised that an open forum allows all to have a voice and the original poster can take or leave opinions as they see fit.
I think you owe Julie an apology for the tone of the first two paragraphs in your post above.

Hello rpm,

I notice that as has happened before you are deliberately responding to one of my messages in order to disagree with something that I wrote although there were no incorrect details in the message.

I would suggest that you wait until I write something that is patently technically incorrect - if this does happen I will be grateful for your correction.

As a Professional Plumber I will try and ensure that incorrect `advice` on here is countered by an explanation / the correct details about whatever is being asked about by an OP.

Of course OP`s can decide what course of action / advice to take - BUT it is important for us Professional Plumbers to identify ourselves as such and to contradict incorrect `advice` / details so that they can choose one of the correct methods of resolving their problem.

I meant no insult to Julie Street - I asked whether She had read my previous message and I stated that I should have explained previously why I would not connect a Washing Machine Standpipe to the existing vertical Waste pipe which combines 2 waste discharges.

I then went on to explain the reason for that.

Perhaps You will find something technically incorrect that I write in future that will merit your comments.

Chris

 

[rpm]

I simply thought the words and tone (by using your trademark) was rude to the lady. Nothing to do with being factual or technically incorrect you clown.

 

[CHRISX]

I simply thought the words and tone (by using your trademark) was rude to the lady. Nothing to do with being factual or technically incorrect you clown.

Hello again rpm,

Do You think that insulting me in your reply is appropriate behaviour for a `Senior Member` such as yourself ?

It is obvious from this and some of your previous comments in messages to me that you have taken a dislike to me for some reason.

It would be better for the Forum if you did not try to find `reasons` which are not Plumbing or Heating related to respond to my messages.

I don`t know what You mean by `your trademark` - unless you mean that I usually write quite a lot of detail and also highlight paragraphs to explain exactly what I mean in my messages.

I do that to try and ensure that there are no misunderstandings regarding the details that I give.

Although I know that some people probably do not like my long messages I intend to continue trying to make sure that people don`t misunderstand anything about something that I write.

Chris

 

[CHRISX]

Replace the white boss arrangement with a tee and a standpipe. You might be able to fix the standpipe to the breeze block.

Hello again Julie Street,

Further to my previous reply to You:

As You might have seen a Member has suggested that I was rude to you in my previous message.

It was definitely not my intention to do so.

Please accept my Apology if You did feel that I was rude or too abrupt ?

Could You please let me know if you did feel that my message / the tone of what I wrote did seem rude ?

I would really appreciate a reply.

Chris

 

[rpm]

C'Mon Chris as a grown man being called a clown cannot possibly be considered an insult unless you have a very thin skin however the term senior could be considered as being ageist.
Further more to acknowledge that your trademark essays and typeface may not be enjoyed by some and then to state that you will continue to post in such a fashion regardless is like sticking 2 fingers up.

 

[Julie Street]

No offence taken. In my experience my method would not cause a problem as the standpipe outlet is already so close to the soilpipe boss and I would not expect the standpipe itself to ever be full of water and it's trap is below the other 2 outlets. Plus unlikely that a full sink and a full basin both discharging at the same time! But I do take your point, and my method, although expedient probably contravenes the regs if I could be bothered to look it up. Just thought it would be easier for a DIYer to do. If I was doing it then it would be a new soilpipe boss but I felt the OP needed something a bit simpler for DIY. Cheers and Happy Sunday!

 

[Ric2013]

But I do take your point, and my method, although expedient probably contravenes the regs if I could be bothered to look it up.!

I suspect you'd find that the Approved Document doesn't say anything about it specifically, but I can't be bothered to look it up either. Anyway, UK Approved Documents are not prescriptive, so I don't think the regulations are something I would be especially worried about in this instance, and I do see your point.

As I once said to a friend and customer who once wanted a new standpipe for a dishwasher to sit next to her washing machine, they do, after all, make 2 into one jobbies to allow appliances to share a standpipe (and had the existing plumbing been good, I would have allowed that in her kitchen on the understanding that it might not work if both machines were used at the same time). BUT, as her existing plumbing was poor, I did a new 2" branch for the appliances.

Sometimes it is about what is practicable in the circumstances and on the available budget.

 

[CHRISX]

C'Mon Chris as a grown man being called a clown cannot possibly be considered an insult unless you have a very thin skin however the term senior could be considered as being ageist.
Further more to acknowledge that your trademark essays and typeface may not be enjoyed by some and then to state that you will continue to post in such a fashion regardless is like sticking 2 fingers up.

Hello again rpm,

What would your reaction be if someone in the street called you a `Clown` - would you think that it was an insult or a term of endearment ?

With regard to me calling You a `Senior Member` that was a respectful term which recognised your Years of Membership and almost 10,000 messages.

That would have been obvious to other Members even if they had only seen your Forum Badges.

Although I know that You could not have been serious with your `Ageist` comment as I don`t remember if I have ever seen you write anything that referenced your Age I have no way of knowing it so therefore I should not be accused of being `Ageist`.

With regard to my `Essays` including my use of `Bold` and sometimes also Coloured text to highlight paragraphs - although I acknowledged that some Members may not like how I write I am guessing that is not the majority.

I stated that I intend to continue my method of writing because I do it to try and ensure that nothing I write is misunderstood - either by Members of the Forum or other readers who may not have any understanding of our `Trade terminology`.

I had explained that in my previous reply to You so I was not `sticking up two fingers to the Forum` or its Members.

Chris

 

[rpm]

<sigh>

 

[CHRISX]

No offence taken. In my experience my method would not cause a problem as the standpipe outlet is already so close to the soilpipe boss and I would not expect the standpipe itself to ever be full of water and it's trap is below the other 2 outlets. Plus unlikely that a full sink and a full basin both discharging at the same time! But I do take your point, and my method, although expedient probably contravenes the regs if I could be bothered to look it up. Just thought it would be easier for a DIYer to do. If I was doing it then it would be a new soilpipe boss but I felt the OP needed something a bit simpler for DIY. Cheers and Happy Sunday!

Hello again Julie Street,

Thanks very much for your reply - I am glad to read that You were not offended by my remarks at the beginning of my first reply to you.

I don`t want to labour the point but I could never agree that it is appropriate to have 3 x 1.5" Waste pipes joined together and discharging from a 1.5" pipe.

I cannot agree that it would not be possible for the vertical Waste pipe to be full of water and I know that IF these 2 waste pipes are - Kitchen Sink and a Basin the wastes could easily and often be discharging together.

When for example a full Kitchen sink discharges water fills a 1.5" waste pipe to Full bore and from experience of timing the discharge from a 12 Litre capacity bowl it takes about 25 seconds - 25 seconds during which the vertical waste pipe in this case would be full of water even at the low point where you suggested a tee for a Standpipe would be.

That is without taking into consideration waste water from perhaps a Basin discharging at the same time adding a few more seconds to the situation.

As We know although the waste water from a Washing Machine is pumped into a Standpipe it is only discharging past the Trap by gravity / displacement.

Because of that there is very little impetus [if any ?] on that water to enable it to overcome the downward force of water in the vertical waste pipe and enter the discharging column of water flow.

I do feel that it would be possible for the vertical waste pipe to be `Full` while one or more other wastes are discharging and that would cause the water in the Standpipe to possibly overflow.

Even if we suggest that people usually use a plastic bowl in a Kitchen Sink or might have a smaller capacity Sink so it does not discharge as much as 12 Litres - they would probably still hold 9 or 10 litres of water so the vertical waste pipe would still be full for 18 or 20 seconds with just the Kitchen Sink discharge.

I do understand your motive of trying to explain the easiest way for the OP but if they and others followed that method and the circumstances that I explained did occur with plenty of water discharged out of the Standpipe they would not be grateful then.

Thanks for stating that if You were doing the job you would connect a Standpipe using a new Boss on the Soil pipe.

With regard to your comments about whether there is anything `in the Regulations` about combining waste pipes - as Ric2013 has correctly stated you would not find anything specific in Part H of the Building Regulations - `H1 Drainage & Waste disposal`.

As with most of the Building Regulations they do not actually instruct on HOW to do things or what can and cannot be done in practical / easy to understand terms.

However if a Plumber / Builder ever tried to get 3 x 1.5" Waste pipes connected together and discharging into a Soil pipe via a 1.5" Boss approved by a Building Control Officer they would very quickly find out that it would NOT be approved / passed !

Thanks again for your message.

Chris