Water Softener Waste Water

[redrum123]

I'm looking for some advice about a faulty install of a water softener I've had done. I had it installed under my stairs, which is where the stopcock is. For the waste, the "plumber" ran a hosepipe through the wall then under my kitchen units then out the wall at the end into the drain. It's about 4.5 meters.

It was leaking everywhere so I got a plumber to come in and look it. He had no connection to the plumber that installed it in the first place. He said it shouldn't have a hosepipe for the waste and wasn't sure if that would work. But he also said every compression fitting was only hand tight and the hose wasn't connected to the overflow (nothing was) so that could have been the cause. He tightened everything up and put a splitter on the hose and connected it to the overflow but the next day it was flooded again.

I called the manufacturer of the softener to see if I could pay them to come out and sort it but they said it must be installed within 1 meter of a drain so that's why it's leaking and there's nothing I can do unless it can be moved under the sink. Unfortunately I don't have enough space under my sink so I want to leave it where it is.

Is there any way it can be made to work? I would have thought there would be a way for the waste water to be pumped out through the hose (I have plug sockets there) but the manufacturer said there isn't. Are there any other softeners (proper softeners that use salt) on the market that would work?

Thanks.

 

[steadyon]

1. The manufacturer probably said "within 1 metre of a drain" because they supply it with 1 metre of drain hose.
2. Provided you can get the right fall on a drain pipe, it shouldn't matter where the drain is.
3. Getting the right fall on a drain pipe might mean raising the water softener. They're very heavy when full of water.
4. There are two outlets, the normal waste for use when the flush takes place, and an overflow to cater for blockages. Both need to go to a drain, but the overflow needs some way of telling when it operates such as a tun dish or visible outfall into a hopper, the latter probably not being practical.

Only you can tell if running proper drainage is possible given the layout of your property. You'd probably need 1 1/2" pipe given the distance.

The flush water has a lot of salt in it so any pump arrangements would need to cater for salt water, and would need fault detection / redundancy built in.

 

[redrum123]

Provided you can get the right fall on a drain pipe, it shouldn't matter where the drain is.

Thanks for the reply. I can raise the softener up, but there's a wall right next to it and the hole they made for the hose is right above ground level, then it's flat for the remaining 4 metres. Would raising the softener work or would it need a fall all the way to the drain?

 

[rpm]

Have no experience of softeners so don`t know the volume of water or the discharge pressure during the flush cycle however I suspect the pressure is low and yes the discharge/ outlet pipe should fall all the way to the drain, probably something like 10-15mm per m fall would do.

 

[steadyon]

Needs to fall all the way to the drain.
If you use 1 1/2" (40mm) pipework fall needs to be between 18 and 80 mm per metre, with a maximum length of 3 metres. You get 4 metres if you go up to 2" (50mm) pipe, and need a fall of 18 to 90mm / metre.

The flow rate is actually fairly low. The waste flush volume / flow should be in the softener handbook, as so many litres discharged in a particular time. The overflow could in theory be mains pressure, but restricted by what can flow through the (15mm?) inlet.

If I could get a well clipped fall of 25mm per metre, I'd be tempted to do the whole run in 1 1/2". If the discharge is under a gully grating but above the drain water level there should be no need for a trap (there's usually an internal one in the softener), but if its going directly into a soil stack I'd fit a running trap. Because the water is saline, freezing in winter shouldn't be a problem for the pipe, but might be for the trap if needed, so an indoor trap would be preferred.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Have no experience of softeners so don`t know the volume of water or the discharge pressure during the flush cycle however I suspect the pressure is low and yes the discharge/ outlet pipe should fall all the way to the drain, probably something like 10-15mm per m fall would do.

Don't know could you pump the waste ?? Thinking of a condense pump or similar??

 

[rpm]

Don't know could you pump the waste ?? Thinking of a condense pump or similar??

As said I know nothing about them however depending on discharge pressure (If any) & volume of water then yes it could be possible to use a pump.

 

[redrum123]

Thanks for the advice in this thread. I had a specialist water softener company come out today. The plumber said there was a lot wrong, with the in and out pipes being the wrong way round for starters and it not being programmed correctly for the size of the tank.

He said the waste pipe doesn't need a drop-off because it's at mains pressure. He said as it's flat, some water will sit in the pipe but that doesn't matter. He said the overflow on the other hand does need a drop-off and needs to be in a completely separate pipe. The second plumber I had look at it put a T piece in, which the guy today said would send the waste back through into the softener and then out the top, which I think is what was happening.

He ran a new hose so I had one for the overflow and one for the waste, and because there's no drop-off, he installed a Kooltech condensate removal pump on the overflow.

From what I understand, what he's done contradicts the advice in this thread to a certain extent, but he seemed to know what he's doing so hopefully it will all be OK.

 

[Frelon]

Sadly confirms that there are a number of well meaning plumbers who know very little about water softeners.
My sister just had her softener installed in her new (old) house by the heating engineer who installed her new boiler. The overflow pipe ran 3" uphill before going to waste! If the unit had malfunctioned the house would have been flooded. He said he was familiar with water softeners!
On the other hand my daughter has just had her kitchen refurbed and the plumber did an ace job.
For future information when the softener is regenerating the waste outlet is under mains pressure so is allowed to go uphill but should end in a drain as the waste water is mainly brine. The overflow on the other hand should go downhill and the end should preferably be visible so that you can keep an eye on any overflow situation.

 

[rpm]

For future information when the softener is regenerating the waste outlet is under mains pressure so is allowed to go uphill but should end in a drain as the waste water is mainly brine. The overflow on the other hand should go downhill and the end should preferably be visible so that you can keep an eye on any overflow situation.

Is there a maximum or recommended lift?