Discuss Apprentice?? How?? Letter from God maybe.... in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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K
konimitsu
Ok guys same old same old....
Some very good and encouraging replies and I thank you guys for your help.
As for the rest, the knockers do me a favour and get a life.....
dannyboy it is hardly my fault if it took you 10 years to get the quals now is it???
Guys do 6 weeks courses and call themselves plumbers...I have done 2 FULL TIME courses a year each an dpassed them then I have paid for my ACS exams and passed them in total about 2 years amnd 2 months...hardly my fault now is it????
Now I am looking for a apprenticeship for gods sake to learn the job PROPERLY and become a COMPETENT plumber and you people want to knock me for gods sake get a life......I do not have the ability to call myself a plumber and do profess to, I have the qualifications that eventually everyone will need and I have done it through college while I could nothing else, just wnat to do the job properly.
Yes I am 18 and yes I am going back to college in a few weeks as I am enrolled on NVQ 3 and eventually I will get a break from somewhere.
As for you two members I hope to god one day you need an apprentice and when you advertise you get exactly what you deserve, one of the drug riddled drunken scumbags that hang around the streets all day and night and apply for any job because the job centre tell them to because with your attitude it is all you deserve.....
Some very good and encouraging replies and I thank you guys for your help.
As for the rest, the knockers do me a favour and get a life.....
dannyboy it is hardly my fault if it took you 10 years to get the quals now is it???
Guys do 6 weeks courses and call themselves plumbers...I have done 2 FULL TIME courses a year each an dpassed them then I have paid for my ACS exams and passed them in total about 2 years amnd 2 months...hardly my fault now is it????
Now I am looking for a apprenticeship for gods sake to learn the job PROPERLY and become a COMPETENT plumber and you people want to knock me for gods sake get a life......I do not have the ability to call myself a plumber and do profess to, I have the qualifications that eventually everyone will need and I have done it through college while I could nothing else, just wnat to do the job properly.
Yes I am 18 and yes I am going back to college in a few weeks as I am enrolled on NVQ 3 and eventually I will get a break from somewhere.
As for you two members I hope to god one day you need an apprentice and when you advertise you get exactly what you deserve, one of the drug riddled drunken scumbags that hang around the streets all day and night and apply for any job because the job centre tell them to because with your attitude it is all you deserve.....
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jammydodger
Gas Engineer
- Messages
- 35
i did'nt think you could get nvq2 without a company, also when i done my acs i had to have a portfolio showin work based experience. im only 25 n when i was in your position i offered to work for free on a trial.
I needed a fat portfolio of gas work to sit my ACS. Off site and on Site. In other words, I had to work with a Gas engineer, in someones house. That was the only way my college would let me sit my ACS and CCN1 etc etc.
You seem to have bipassed this...and now you say you are registered with GS.
No need to get spiteful..no one has insulted you.
And yes, if you are trully GS registered I think it reflects badly on our training schemes. By law you can now come into my home and service my boiler (or anyone elses) but by your own admission, you wouldn't have a clue how to do it. Unbelievable.
You seem to have bipassed this...and now you say you are registered with GS.
No need to get spiteful..no one has insulted you.
And yes, if you are trully GS registered I think it reflects badly on our training schemes. By law you can now come into my home and service my boiler (or anyone elses) but by your own admission, you wouldn't have a clue how to do it. Unbelievable.
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K
konimitsu
Safety safety safety......
By my own admission I need to do a good few years learning the job PROPERLY... that is what I have said...I AM LOOKING FOR AN APPRENTICESHIP NOT TO WORK IN YOUR HOUSE.....READ MY POSTS .... I AM LOOKING FOR AN APPRENTICESHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did work on site studying, I have a portfolio of work, I do not think they just changed things for me. The site experience gained is enough for you to pass your exams and work safely. The main thing that you are taught 'in my opinion' is SAFETY and that should be paramount for everybody. I have passed my ACS and I am able to work SAFELY and I have since worked with plumbers / gas engineers for free and cheap to gain experience.
IT IS YOU GUYS WHO ATTACKED ME AND CALL ME A LIAR, YOU SO CALLED TIMESERVED TRADESMEN. MAYBE YOU NEED TO GIVE PEOPLE A BREAK WHO WANT TO LEARN A TRADE AND DO THE BEST THEY CAN. I HOPE I AM NEVER AS BITTER AS YOU AFTER 10 YEARS MATEY.
Is this your approach to all 18 yr olds looking to do something with their life???
By my own admission I need to do a good few years learning the job PROPERLY... that is what I have said...I AM LOOKING FOR AN APPRENTICESHIP NOT TO WORK IN YOUR HOUSE.....READ MY POSTS .... I AM LOOKING FOR AN APPRENTICESHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did work on site studying, I have a portfolio of work, I do not think they just changed things for me. The site experience gained is enough for you to pass your exams and work safely. The main thing that you are taught 'in my opinion' is SAFETY and that should be paramount for everybody. I have passed my ACS and I am able to work SAFELY and I have since worked with plumbers / gas engineers for free and cheap to gain experience.
IT IS YOU GUYS WHO ATTACKED ME AND CALL ME A LIAR, YOU SO CALLED TIMESERVED TRADESMEN. MAYBE YOU NEED TO GIVE PEOPLE A BREAK WHO WANT TO LEARN A TRADE AND DO THE BEST THEY CAN. I HOPE I AM NEVER AS BITTER AS YOU AFTER 10 YEARS MATEY.
Is this your approach to all 18 yr olds looking to do something with their life???
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E
ecowarm
I admire what you have achived and if you was on the other side of the country I would help you.
Eco
M
moony
2 idiots? for questioning a corrupt scheme - where you can go into someones house and work on gas where you quite clearly state yourself your not capable?
think you'll find we're not idiotic for suggesting this is questionable.
mate look at it from my point of view..... colleges around here dont teach nvq's to anyone not employed - so i take it you paid big bucks to get your nvq through a training centre?
nvq level 2 in plumbing
and
nvw level 2 in gas
and acs
and more importantly your now gas safe registered?
and you want an apprenticeship?
if i had all them qualifications i would not want the apprenticeship i would want full pay - you have on site experience, you must have to get the quals...
your gas safe registered take it you have a gs number?, if your looking for an apprenticeship then you should be snapped up, cos i for one would defo take a load on who has them quals, and is gas safe in his own right, on apprentice wages.
what we are saying is that you could, if you want go self-employed and work on your own and be working in situations where you do not know what your doing. not your fault, i just find it hard to belive someone would be gas safe reg - in your position - and if you are in my opinion its wrong....
the fact that you have your head screwed on and you want to carry on gaining expereince is irrelevant - the fact is you could id you wanted to go into someones house and work on there boilers, gas, and by your own admission you dont know enough about it yet but are qualified to do so. contradiction in its terms - i am not hating the player as you young lads say - im merely hating the game if this is what its come to.
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E
ecowarm
There are people out there gas safe registered with very little experience, and it is wrong, but at least konimitsu realises that he needs experience and isn't going to to just go out there and possibly cause harm to property or persons. The system is wrong and something will definatly go t*ts up and then they will do something.
Bring back proper aprenticeships and do away with all the fast track routes.
I was trained in the day when it was not mandatory to be CORGI REG. but there wasn't the cowboys out there then.
Bring back proper aprenticeships and do away with all the fast track routes.
I was trained in the day when it was not mandatory to be CORGI REG. but there wasn't the cowboys out there then.
T
tamz
I'm with you on this Eco. The system as it is now, is totally wrong.
The rot set in around the 2000's when the fast track stuff started. Everybody thought they could be a plumber/gas fitter in a few weeks or months. Spend a few thousand and reap the rewards
A few years back Corgi were quite happy?? to collect registration fees from joiners, builders and electricians who didn't know the difference between a gas meter and a parking meter. No knowledge or experiance was necessary. Just pass the exam and you were in!
Then someone realised!! that wasn't right! and that evidence of doing gas work had to had to be provided. But it is still far too easy. There are lots of places where "sufficient training" to build a portfolio is provided.
Anyone with half a brain, a bit dedication and a few quid to spare could do their plumbing and gas quals quite quickly. It is not hard to do or learn and once completed only proves you are competent (in reading at least). Although their training provides the basics, it in no way provides anywhere near enough knowledge. No one who is new to the industry can come out of an ACS centre and think they now know the job.
The real learning begins when you are out actually doing the work and if you are going self employed, how will you know if what you are doing is correct? You have no one to tell you otherwise and as you have no real life experience you just don't know until they are audited by a Gas Safe inspector, who by the nature of the work, can't check everything. Safe? Perhaps.
I wonder how many who have retrained in plumbing/gas are still at it after a few years as they realise they do not have the necessary skills and knowledge to do the job properly or to even make a living. Possibly 2 in 10??
I can't knock the lad for realising although he has the qualifications, he doesn't have enough skills knowledge and experience to do the job properly.
Hope he finds someone willing to give him a break.
The rot set in around the 2000's when the fast track stuff started. Everybody thought they could be a plumber/gas fitter in a few weeks or months. Spend a few thousand and reap the rewards
A few years back Corgi were quite happy?? to collect registration fees from joiners, builders and electricians who didn't know the difference between a gas meter and a parking meter. No knowledge or experiance was necessary. Just pass the exam and you were in!
Then someone realised!! that wasn't right! and that evidence of doing gas work had to had to be provided. But it is still far too easy. There are lots of places where "sufficient training" to build a portfolio is provided.
Anyone with half a brain, a bit dedication and a few quid to spare could do their plumbing and gas quals quite quickly. It is not hard to do or learn and once completed only proves you are competent (in reading at least). Although their training provides the basics, it in no way provides anywhere near enough knowledge. No one who is new to the industry can come out of an ACS centre and think they now know the job.
The real learning begins when you are out actually doing the work and if you are going self employed, how will you know if what you are doing is correct? You have no one to tell you otherwise and as you have no real life experience you just don't know until they are audited by a Gas Safe inspector, who by the nature of the work, can't check everything. Safe? Perhaps.
I wonder how many who have retrained in plumbing/gas are still at it after a few years as they realise they do not have the necessary skills and knowledge to do the job properly or to even make a living. Possibly 2 in 10??
I can't knock the lad for realising although he has the qualifications, he doesn't have enough skills knowledge and experience to do the job properly.
Hope he finds someone willing to give him a break.
F
ferret
I agree fully, anyone can pass the acs with a weeks training at a GAS college ,thats all they teach for gods safe HOW TO PASS ACS nothing more , its rubbish but its legal nothing anyone can do about it. This lad at least accepts that and is willing to learn properly , why is everyone getting so het up over it. I remember back in the day when they had TOPS courses , glut of newly qualified cowboys on the streets , after a six week course .
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K
konimitsu
Thanks eco for seeing what my post is about and your word of reason and sense.
First of all qplumb grow up mate, this is a forum so don't talk nonsense about 'would you say it to my face' blah blah blah....how old are you?? By the way I may be a young lad but that does not give you the right to call me a liar when I am clearly not, if you do not agree with the system fine but do not blame me for it.
I just wish you and any other knockers would go and see what I am posting for, I am not posting for anything else than apprenticeship or help with experience from a time served tradesman...nothinG else no advice on how to botch up mrs jones boiler...or how to fix a tap washer for mr smith and take as long as I can to get more dosh....I am asking for someone to give me a break with some work experience as I NEED it, I know I need it, I clearly state I need it....
You obviously have the wrong idea about how the NVQ's work, check with a couple of local colleges in your area as they will be offering NVQ's in the same as I did as most colleges do. I have not paid a penny other than for tools and other bits I have needed for both my NVQ's as I was 16 for the NVQ plumbing and 17 for the NVQ gas and I am not paying for the NVQ 3 I start in 2 weeks....why do I not pay? Because upto 19 you do not pay for further education or training. The only course and exams I had to pay for was my ACS which were expensive and NOT done through education or college.
I clearly have a portfolio of work undertaken and enough to pass these exams but that does not mean I am able to go out and do what I want. The whole point of gas safety is exactly that being safe and it is about knowing what should and should not be done, about testing for safety and making sure everything is right before you move on. If you wanted me to come and check a gas job that you were doing I am sure all the way through I could point out the safety issues and what would need checking etc as we went along...that makes me safe.... A FULL TIME college course is a little bit more than a couple of hours a week over many years or a 5 or 6 week intense course.....I think the college courses could be better and probably would be if the general construction industry was in a better state and not in recession. Guys like me would be getting more opportunity while on the course to do more work and be more confident to the job properly immediately they finish. As it is you do enough to pass your exams and work safely but you may only do each job one time on site and it may not be the full job seen through from start to finish but just part of that job at a time and this is not ideal for being competent in my view. That I think is down to the industy right nowa nd how quiet it is for everybody.
I don't believe it makes a mockery of the training and qualification system because the most important thing we learn is safety, it gives us a good basic knowledge of the industry and gives a good understanding of the job and the industry. I do not believe you can beome a plumber by qualification alone, you need both the qualifications and the full time on job training like you guys have done, yes? You have done the NVQ's and worked as apprentice for a few years? Yes? Well that is exactly the same as I wish to do but I have done my qualifications first through no fault of my own, at my own expense for the ACS and full time over 2 years. You may have doen both together and it tale maybe 5 or 6 years as apprentice and part time study, I expect mine to take the same time or more but have just done it differently to you.
I believe if you want a cscs card you need qualifications, many jobs will insist on qualifications, the future will probably demand qualifications for everyone. Don't knock me for wanting to do the job and learn the RIGHT WAY for me....I am sure there are many others you could knock but no matter what you say you cannot knock me for wanting to do things right.
This and other forums are littered with guys asking is there is a quick way to get qualified? Any short cuts? Could I get away this, that and the other? Is there a way around not having your NVQ? etc etc etc Maybe they are the guys you should be challenging and not an 18 yr old who has clearly set out his target to do the job in the RIGHT & SAFE way because YOU do not think he should be allowed to have his qualifications yet.
If you was busy enough to take on an apprentice and you had 2 choices 1, An 18 yr old who come along and had not done anything since leaving school but a couple of dead end jobs or someone that had clearly set to do the specific job you want them to do by spending the last 2 years getting as much qualification and experience as he could who wanted to learn the job properly over years WHO WOULD YOU CHOOSE??
Over to Judge Judy the voice of reason......
First of all qplumb grow up mate, this is a forum so don't talk nonsense about 'would you say it to my face' blah blah blah....how old are you?? By the way I may be a young lad but that does not give you the right to call me a liar when I am clearly not, if you do not agree with the system fine but do not blame me for it.
I just wish you and any other knockers would go and see what I am posting for, I am not posting for anything else than apprenticeship or help with experience from a time served tradesman...nothinG else no advice on how to botch up mrs jones boiler...or how to fix a tap washer for mr smith and take as long as I can to get more dosh....I am asking for someone to give me a break with some work experience as I NEED it, I know I need it, I clearly state I need it....
You obviously have the wrong idea about how the NVQ's work, check with a couple of local colleges in your area as they will be offering NVQ's in the same as I did as most colleges do. I have not paid a penny other than for tools and other bits I have needed for both my NVQ's as I was 16 for the NVQ plumbing and 17 for the NVQ gas and I am not paying for the NVQ 3 I start in 2 weeks....why do I not pay? Because upto 19 you do not pay for further education or training. The only course and exams I had to pay for was my ACS which were expensive and NOT done through education or college.
I clearly have a portfolio of work undertaken and enough to pass these exams but that does not mean I am able to go out and do what I want. The whole point of gas safety is exactly that being safe and it is about knowing what should and should not be done, about testing for safety and making sure everything is right before you move on. If you wanted me to come and check a gas job that you were doing I am sure all the way through I could point out the safety issues and what would need checking etc as we went along...that makes me safe.... A FULL TIME college course is a little bit more than a couple of hours a week over many years or a 5 or 6 week intense course.....I think the college courses could be better and probably would be if the general construction industry was in a better state and not in recession. Guys like me would be getting more opportunity while on the course to do more work and be more confident to the job properly immediately they finish. As it is you do enough to pass your exams and work safely but you may only do each job one time on site and it may not be the full job seen through from start to finish but just part of that job at a time and this is not ideal for being competent in my view. That I think is down to the industy right nowa nd how quiet it is for everybody.
I don't believe it makes a mockery of the training and qualification system because the most important thing we learn is safety, it gives us a good basic knowledge of the industry and gives a good understanding of the job and the industry. I do not believe you can beome a plumber by qualification alone, you need both the qualifications and the full time on job training like you guys have done, yes? You have done the NVQ's and worked as apprentice for a few years? Yes? Well that is exactly the same as I wish to do but I have done my qualifications first through no fault of my own, at my own expense for the ACS and full time over 2 years. You may have doen both together and it tale maybe 5 or 6 years as apprentice and part time study, I expect mine to take the same time or more but have just done it differently to you.
I believe if you want a cscs card you need qualifications, many jobs will insist on qualifications, the future will probably demand qualifications for everyone. Don't knock me for wanting to do the job and learn the RIGHT WAY for me....I am sure there are many others you could knock but no matter what you say you cannot knock me for wanting to do things right.
This and other forums are littered with guys asking is there is a quick way to get qualified? Any short cuts? Could I get away this, that and the other? Is there a way around not having your NVQ? etc etc etc Maybe they are the guys you should be challenging and not an 18 yr old who has clearly set out his target to do the job in the RIGHT & SAFE way because YOU do not think he should be allowed to have his qualifications yet.
If you was busy enough to take on an apprentice and you had 2 choices 1, An 18 yr old who come along and had not done anything since leaving school but a couple of dead end jobs or someone that had clearly set to do the specific job you want them to do by spending the last 2 years getting as much qualification and experience as he could who wanted to learn the job properly over years WHO WOULD YOU CHOOSE??
Over to Judge Judy the voice of reason......
Last edited by a moderator:
P
Puddle
I agree fully, anyone can pass the acs with a weeks training at a GAS college ,thats all they teach for gods safe HOW TO PASS ACS nothing more , its rubbish but its legal nothing anyone can do about it. This lad at least accepts that and is willing to learn properly , why is everyone getting so het up over it. I remember back in the day when they had TOPS courses , glut of newly qualified cowboys on the streets , after a six week course .
Maybe everyone is grtting 'het up about it ' because it is wrong and past wrongs do not make a right
You now can not go into a classroom for a week and come out gas qualified,that has been stopped,maybe you are refering to 3 day or 4 day refreasher courses
Any college allowing untrained and inexperianced people on these courses should be reported,a full portfollio has to be completed also
K
konimitsu
I'm with you on this Eco. The system as it is now, is totally wrong.
The rot set in around the 2000's when the fast track stuff started. Everybody thought they could be a plumber/gas fitter in a few weeks or months. Spend a few thousand and reap the rewards
A few years back Corgi were quite happy?? to collect registration fees from joiners, builders and electricians who didn't know the difference between a gas meter and a parking meter. No knowledge or experiance was necessary. Just pass the exam and you were in!
Then someone realised!! that wasn't right! and that evidence of doing gas work had to had to be provided. But it is still far too easy. There are lots of places where "sufficient training" to build a portfolio is provided.
Anyone with half a brain, a bit dedication and a few quid to spare could do their plumbing and gas quals quite quickly. It is not hard to do or learn and once completed only proves you are competent (in reading at least). Although their training provides the basics, it in no way provides anywhere near enough knowledge. No one who is new to the industry can come out of an ACS centre and think they now know the job.
The real learning begins when you are out actually doing the work and if you are going self employed, how will you know if what you are doing is correct? You have no one to tell you otherwise and as you have no real life experience you just don't know until they are audited by a Gas Safe inspector, who by the nature of the work, can't check everything. Safe? Perhaps.
I wonder how many who have retrained in plumbing/gas are still at it after a few years as they realise they do not have the necessary skills and knowledge to do the job properly or to even make a living. Possibly 2 in 10??
I can't knock the lad for realising although he has the qualifications, he doesn't have enough skills knowledge and experience to do the job properly.
Hope he finds someone willing to give him a break.
100% spot on in my view and exactly what I am saying but maybe another way round and this is exactly why I am looking for an apprenticeship.
I am even starting to think like a plumber, lol....
T
traineedrip
Someone open a PRV!
Koni, as said earlier admire your attitude, but some of these knockers have the stuff you need, knowledge and experience.... better to take it on the chin and grow rather than get into word battles with them.
When you think about it , they have a point. The fact that your qualified to walk into someones home and mess about with their gas supply, yet inexperienced to the point of not feeling you can shows the system has let you down, the customer and the industry. Glad youve recognised your limitations but others might not.
Youre totally right to say you need experience, so the system should provide this oppertunity, it hasnt. Nor did it for me.
Koni, as said earlier admire your attitude, but some of these knockers have the stuff you need, knowledge and experience.... better to take it on the chin and grow rather than get into word battles with them.
When you think about it , they have a point. The fact that your qualified to walk into someones home and mess about with their gas supply, yet inexperienced to the point of not feeling you can shows the system has let you down, the customer and the industry. Glad youve recognised your limitations but others might not.
Youre totally right to say you need experience, so the system should provide this oppertunity, it hasnt. Nor did it for me.
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Reply to Apprentice?? How?? Letter from God maybe.... in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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