Are plumbers falling behind other trades?

[MUR4Y]

Does anyone here think that plumbers seem to be having to work harder and have more responsibility heaped upon them for not a lot more money than some of the other trades. I am a time served plumber and been doing it for the last 24 years and for the last 10 years all we seem to be doing is training course after training course. It seems like you cant fit anything nowadays unless you have a ticket to say you are qualified, then you end up signing your life away before you can hand your work over. Over the years I have gone from working on new build homes then more commercial types of work, but am now unfortunately back on the housebashing side of things. I was always told being a plumber was a good career choice and maybe it was 20 or 25 years ago,but now I get the feeling I should have been a bricklayer, plasterer or joiner, who in my experience of building site work seem to be earning just as much money if not more for a lot less responsibility and a lot less training courses to go on to continue to be able to just keep making a living. I am not knocking the other trades, I am sure they have their own crosses to bare. Do any other plumbers here feel the same or am I just being a wingebag. RANT OVER!

 

[Puddle]

You make a lot of good points Mur4y,trouble is ,that their are so many levels of plumbing,if you are a basic plumber you will be on the same as brick layers and joiners,which is right,as they a good trades in their own right,however if you do other specialised works that requires further registration,then extra reward should be paid,however on sites,builders and main contractors are always pushing to get more done and just pay the basic payment,this is getting worse in the current climate,as they know they can get away with it
I have not worked on sites for years,as rates are generally low,especially when agencies get involved (I think agencies should be a lot more regulated as to their use,corruption is their middle name in all areas)

imho

 

[tamz]

Plumbers have always had to work hard for their money when compared (on an hourly rate).
Generally on the pay scale it has always been electricians, plumbers, joiners, plasterers/brickies/roofers, painters, labourers and some of these trades are harder physically than the plumbing (have you ever tried loading a roof with tiles) but have no responsibility (a cscs ticket the dog could pass).
Plumbers and especially gas installers have been overloaded with regulation/responsibility and cost in the past few years and it should be reflected in the pay rates. Obviously i think it should.
All tradesmen have a hard physical job which takes its toll on the body but the general public don't regcognise this and the builders even less.

If you have been in the trade for years and know your stuff negotiate a better deal, it may surprise you, even in the "current climate" (couldn't think of better words there).
My brother and his workmate have just negotiated theirselves around a £280/wk pay rise above what the other squads are on and the pick of the work (they are on pricework installing heating with a national company) after threatening to leave to a competitor but they are good and fast at what they do.
His words - I knew i was good but never knew they thought so too.

 

[Dannypipe]

Yes we are under paid, under valued (until the sh** hits the fan) and over worked!

I've had to go on a call out tonight for a system I installed a year ago. An hour and a half round trip, and guess what? Programmer is switched off, despite me asking if it was on. So I flicked it on, boiler fired up. The client doesn't live in this country so they don't use the system very often and had forgotten how to use it.

I didn't charge (I'm working for their son in the next few weeks, very nice job), but what got me was they didn't offer to pay either!
Our job is all consuming, i love it, but I think it should pay better.

 

[plumbster3456]

Yes we are under paid, under valued (until the sh** hits the fan) and over worked!

I've had to go on a call out tonight for a system I installed a year ago. An hour and a half round trip, and guess what? Programmer is switched off, despite me asking if it was on. So I flicked it on, boiler fired up. The client doesn't live in this country so they don't use the system very often and had forgotten how to use it.

I didn't charge (I'm working for their son in the next few weeks, very nice job), but what got me was they didn't offer to pay either!
Our job is all consuming, i love it, but I think it should pay better.

of course they should pay something what about your petrol/ diesel ? you are doing work for there son so what I would have charged at least an hours rate £45 it doesnt matter if you only had to switch on the timer who is to say they wont forget this again in 2 months

 

[mrlennie]

I think that too. I do abit of painting when the plumbings quiet (rural area) I tell you work has never been so easy. Roller dust sheets minimal skill and a wage. I then get to go to quote a grumpy customer who doesn't want to pay more than 6.50 an hour want top of the range bathroom and wants me out in 2-3 days "4 would be too much". Do you want any rooms painting? lol.

 

[Avatar]

Problem is plumbers are the most reviled trade - we take the stick for everyone else!

This is probably why, even in todays credit cruch culture, I have a 'if you want the job done well, then you will have to pay me well to do it it' motto!

If I am going to be a plumber, i am damn well going to be well paid for it, I dont care what customers might want, and other monkeys might charge!

Also I am not getting gas safe either, as it is not a reasonable outlay - I will shell out money, for very little extra reward as I see it . . .

 

[shorticus]

Wow, this is one of the best threads I’ve read on the forum, some very good points made guys. I too have always maintained that our craft is grossly underpaid. As a paye employee the rates can be comparable to driving a bus, not that I’m having a go at bus drivers but I don’t see how the two skills and level of learning compares. We work in a very fractured and competitive industry so maintaining solidarity is difficult, we have no union like the underground so don’t have one voice, we are very much products of Thatcher’s vision and as a result have to battle on as individuals. I’ve been in the industry for well over twenty years and as a result of the down turn am now starting on my own, risky I know but I’m going to take your approach Avatar, I’d rather lose 5 quotes by pricing them realistically than win 1 by losing money. My skills and knowledge have taken a long time to aquire and I’m committed to improving them, surely that has value?

 

[moony]

Problem is plumbers are the most reviled trade - we take the stick for everyone else!

This is probably why, even in todays credit cruch culture, I have a 'if you want the job done well, then you will have to pay me well to do it it' motto!

If I am going to be a plumber, i am damn well going to be well paid for it, I dont care what customers might want, and other monkeys might charge!

Also I am not getting gas safe either, as it is not a reasonable outlay - I will shell out money, for very little extra reward as I see it . . .

totally agree mate, lifes a **** at the moment im working 14 hours a day and rescuing all sorts of people from this cold weather and all of them begrudge paying. the nicer you are the more you get **** on as well - can you tell ive had a hard day?

keep your gas safe going though mate - checked yourwebsite out and if youve already got it going then it would be silly to stop and then lose out if you have to re-register!

 

[dontknowitall]

Couldn't say that plumbing is falling behind other trades (but I sometimes think we should be earning more per hour than the others!)

Something that is much more difficult is diagnosing and solving problems - there are just so many different scenarios and this is probably where the time served are coming from when they talk about the new fast trackers. NO COMMENTS ON THIS ASPECT AS THERE ARE LOADS OF OTHER THREADS ON THIS!!!

With builders if there's a damp patch it's either a pipe or a hole in a roof or poorly designed guttering. If it's electrical it either works or it doesn't. With paint it's either in the right place or the wrong place or the right colour or the wrong colour. I am generalising with all these but with plumbing there are so many reasons why heating doesn't work properly or why hot water is only warm or why the water pressure is not good, etc, etc.

Another thing I find is the number of times you have to visit twice. Once to see the problem and have it explained to you. Then the second time to fix it. Obviously a leaking tap or WC letting by you can do straight away. Or can you? What happens if it's a cartridge? Or one of those fancy flush valves? The trouble is the first visit is rarely paid for and when you return you're counted as starting at the beginning of the second visit, not the hour (plus one hour travel) you've spent on your first appointment.

 

[mrlennie]

I agree don't know it all but the last point alot of trades are the same most trades have to look and come back can't get the roller out while they are asking for the quote lol.

 

[Avatar]

We have to restablish exactly WHY plumbing is supposed to be the best paid trade - and give it proper value again!

The general public may have lost faith in plumbers to a degree, but with so many people out there doing it, and for different prices as well it is understandable.

We just need to remind them why plumbers are the best trademen. When I go to a job to quote I am quite honest with the custard, and I tell them sure they can get cheaper quotes than mine. I tell them If they want a leak free installation, that is installed by an expert and will last them for years, then they need to pay more for the job - funny enough most people understand, even if they cannot afford . . .

It is a lesson that the english public will have to learn - cheap = crap doesn't work with plumbing! (not unless you want leaks and like bugging you for years that is!)

 

[Gavin]

Couldn't say that plumbing is falling behind other trades (but I sometimes think we should be earning more per hour than the others!)

Every trade does though, although I'm not a plumber or anything I am time served in another trade (Welder/Fabricator) and most see things the same way. As much as we can potentially earn a high hourly rate (Saw £26 per hr for difficult work in Norway) people really want a pound of flesh. And that is increasing.

 

[northcarr]

I served my time as a joiner and spent 11yrs at it, I had always been intrested in plumbing and went back to college and did night class,then want into plumbing having done 10yrs 5 on my own have to agree.The cost of course after course is starting to get me down.

 

[Twinhawk]

Plumbers have always had to work hard for their money when compared (on an hourly rate).
Generally on the pay scale it has always been electricians, plumbers, joiners, plasterers/brickies/roofers, painters, labourers and some of these trades are harder physically than the plumbing (have you ever tried loading a roof with tiles) but have no responsibility (a cscs ticket the dog could pass).
Plumbers and especially gas installers have been overloaded with regulation/responsibility and cost in the past few years and it should be reflected in the pay rates. Obviously i think it should.
All tradesmen have a hard physical job which takes its toll on the body but the general public don't regcognise this and the builders even less.

If you have been in the trade for years and know your stuff negotiate a better deal, it may surprise you, even in the "current climate" (couldn't think of better words there).
My brother and his workmate have just negotiated theirselves around a £280/wk pay rise above what the other squads are on and the pick of the work (they are on pricework installing heating with a national company) after threatening to leave to a competitor but they are good and fast at what they do.
His words - I knew i was good but never knew they thought so too.

i work on roofs from time to time from i was 14 i started plumbing when i was 16 im now 21 and still do the odd roof, i would plumb a house any day of the week rather than load a roof, there is still responsiblity there apart from leaks but its physically demanding (my uncle is 43 with every limb and digit broken at some stage, in saying that my dads a plumber and hes as bad with stress) boring as sin so boring i look forward to doing the leadwork,

 

[cr0ft]

Wow, this is one of the best threads I’ve read on the forum, some very good points made guys. I too have always maintained that our craft is grossly underpaid. As a paye employee the rates can be comparable to driving a bus, not that I’m having a go at bus drivers but I don’t see how the two skills and level of learning compares. We work in a very fractured and competitive industry so maintaining solidarity is difficult, we have no union like the underground so don’t have one voice, we are very much products of Thatcher’s vision and as a result have to battle on as individuals. I’ve been in the industry for well over twenty years and as a result of the down turn am now starting on my own, risky I know but I’m going to take your approach Avatar, I’d rather lose 5 quotes by pricing them realistically than win 1 by losing money. My skills and knowledge have taken a long time to aquire and I’m committed to improving them, surely that has value?

This comment is so true. In the last 2 weeks I've done 5 quotes for large domestic jobs. I could tell straight away that 3 of them were people who wanted things done as cheaply as possible.

I could have been working this week but I would have been busting a gut for next to no profit afterwards, just to give someone a cheap bathroom.

Personally I would much rather focus on the quotes where the customer values a quality job and I can earn a fair wage for doing what is actually a physically and mentally demanding job.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

My hubby would recommend our kids train as electricians he says they have a licence to print £££.
We both notice over the years of all the trades Sparks seem to do best.

Plumbing & Heating does seem to be the toughest trade to make a living from because not just cost of so many courses but also high cost of insurance, only roofers and ground workers face similar high insuance costs. Obviously insurance relates to the risk/complexity related to the trade.
But most customers do not expect to pay plumber /heating engineer the sort of rate which reflects the high cost of running our business.

Ultimately it comes down to supply and demand though. The real cause of the problem is where qualified plumbers/heating engineers set their prices too low, dragging the rates down for us all.
In fact, if better organised plumbers/ heating engineers could be in a very good position to charge high rates because of their exclusive right to work on gas.

Eg. any one can set themselves up doing legal work, offering health advice, doing accountancy. BUT only a qualified gas engineer can fit or fix a boiler.