cold water combination valve replacement - megaflow

[fairylights]

This has been leaking badly and needs replacing...I have bought the part and a heating engineer came to give me a quote today, but he says it will take him 2hrs to replace as he has to drain the water cylinder completely by attaching a hose to it? I thought it was going to be a fairly simple job, being just a case of turning off the water by the black lever to isolate the cold flow and replacing the valve...(only what i have read online).

I would be grateful if someone could advise me how long a job this would be, as i have already had huge problems with this system since i moved into the house end of last year. Had two engineers who have taken £800 off me so far for the amount of work, so really looking to make sure this quote/explanation of work needed by a different engineer, is true. Does the cylinder/tank need draining?

Also, the pressure has dropped considerably again but he tells me that s because there must be a leak somewhere in the pipework..? I live in a Victorian house and obviously the central heating was a late addition, so all of the pipes to rads are above the floor...no leaks! I did have to bleed a rad yest, so could that be the reason for pressure drop?

Thanks

 

[sh7295]

Depending if the combi valve is above cylinder its a matter of turning of cold water, open all hot taps and replace if accessible can be done in 30 mins if at bottom of cylinder then will need draining.

and pressure in youre heating is due to you bleeding the rad did you make engineer aware of you doing this to suggest leak

 

[chris watkins]

This has been leaking badly and needs replacing...I have bought the part and a heating engineer came to give me a quote today, but he says it will take him 2hrs to replace as he has to drain the water cylinder completely by attaching a hose to it? I thought it was going to be a fairly simple job, being just a case of turning off the water by the black lever to isolate the cold flow and replacing the valve...(only what i have read online).

I would be grateful if someone could advise me how long a job this would be, as i have already had huge problems with this system since i moved into the house end of last year. Had two engineers who have taken £800 off me so far for the amount of work, so really looking to make sure this quote/explanation of work needed by a different engineer, is true. Does the cylinder/tank need draining?

Also, the pressure has dropped considerably again but he tells me that s because there must be a leak somewhere in the pipework..? I live in a Victorian house and obviously the central heating was a late addition, so all of the pipes to rads are above the floor...no leaks! I did have to bleed a rad yest, so could that be the reason for pressure drop?

Thanks

If you don't mine me asking what are they quoting to install the new valve ? Have you got a second or third quote ? What did you have done for £800.
If the pressure reducing valve is leaking it is likely that the spring inside has rusted this normally results in low pressure which the new valve will sort out.
You can always post on here for a plumber in your area !

 

[fairylights]

If you don't mine me asking what are they quoting to install the new valve ? Have you got a second or third quote ? What did you have done for £800.
If the pressure reducing valve is leaking it is likely that the spring inside has rusted this normally results in low pressure which the new valve will sort out.
You can always post on here for a plumber in your area !

Many thanks for your replies...the valve is situated at the bottom so that's probably why he said it needs draining then.

£800 has been spent on various call outs for parts needed... ...hot water didn't work when i moved in and it was the shut off valve or something = £130....thermostat then went so new one of those = £90.....heating then wouldn't turn off another time...call out and further £70 labour....problems with pressure, or lack of...so another call out and two hours labour £130... gas valve then became faulty and was leaking...new valve, new temperature switch (boiler temp control) and new pump (leaking) £350......

now this latest problem...i have bought the new part for a bargain price of £69 (good old ebay)...quote for the work £90...Is that a fair quote?

 

[jtsplumbing]

£90.00 for 2hrs seems a fair price, depends were you live ! why not drain the tank your self and save some time ?

 

[lbp plg & htg]

You have got a bargain price for the valve and now expect the engineer to work for a bargain price too (£90 for 2hrs isnt too bad)?

Not knocking you personally as Im not in possession of all the facts but isolationg the black handle wont help in my view. The water will need to be isolated prior to this and if it has been installed by a plumber and not a service engineer (difference? Damn right there is).

So as previously mentioned then if the valve is above the cylinder then it will need draining but make the engineer aware - to drain down from the drain off will take ??? time, if he removes t&p valve it will take half the time and if he yes untightens the outlet and syphons then it will take a third of the time.

All about knowing what to do.

 

[lbp plg & htg]

Oh and as for those reading in please - its Megaflo - no W!

 

[chris watkins]

Many thanks for your replies...the valve is situated at the bottom so that's probably why he said it needs draining then.

£800 has been spent on various call outs for parts needed... ...hot water didn't work when i moved in and it was the shut off valve or something = £130....thermostat then went so new one of those = £90.....heating then wouldn't turn off another time...call out and further £70 labour....problems with pressure, or lack of...so another call out and two hours labour £130... gas valve then became faulty and was leaking...new valve, new temperature switch (boiler temp control) and new pump (leaking) £350......

now this latest problem...i have bought the new part for a bargain price of £69 (good old ebay)...quote for the work £90...Is that a fair quote?

You do seem to be unlucky as far as your plumbing & heating systems are concerned or are you questioning if all the work was required & that has prompted your post ? If you do not have confident's I them find some one new ask around for recommendation or find someone who specializes.
Two things to remember first - Building Reg's (the Law) states that you (or a plumber) should not work on an un-vented hot water system unless they are competent to do so & this is shown by competing the Part G training & assessment course, which is now renewed every 5 years. So you would be breaking the law if you started doing the work yourself IMHO. Secondly - the parts used should be "like for like" because of the safety implications. If I was asked to install your fitting I would have be satisfied that it was a genuine part & even then would probably not offer any warrantee on the replacement.
By the way we charge more than you have been quoted (inc VAT) but then we do know what we are doing, so much so that we offer a fixed price repair.

 

[fairylights]

You have got a bargain price for the valve and now expect the engineer to work for a bargain price too (£90 for 2hrs isnt too bad)?

Not knocking you personally as Im not in possession of all the facts but isolationg the black handle wont help in my view. The water will need to be isolated prior to this and if it has been installed by a plumber and not a service engineer (difference? Damn right there is).

So as previously mentioned then if the valve is above the cylinder then it will need draining but make the engineer aware - to drain down from the drain off will take ??? time, if he removes t&p valve it will take half the time and if he yes untightens the outlet and syphons then it will take a third of the time.

All about knowing what to do.

Thanks everyone...just to clarify, he offered to do it for that price i.e £90 which i am very happy about, was just checking if that was a good price as been so badly stung before. He lives just around the corner from me which is also a bonus and unbenown to me prior to calling him, has done work for a couple of people i know through volunteer work.

No knowledge personally on how to do this valve as not an engineer. The combi valve is below the cylinder, almost at floor level, but engineer has experience of working on this type of system...says it will take around an hour just to drain off.

Yes i was extremely lucky to get the valve at the price i did...it was the only one on ebay:teeth_smile:

 

[fairylights]

You do seem to be unlucky as far as your plumbing & heating systems are concerned or are you questioning if all the work was required & that has prompted your post ? If you do not have confident's I them find some one new ask around for recommendation or find someone who specializes.
Two things to remember first - Building Reg's (the Law) states that you (or a plumber) should not work on an un-vented hot water system unless they are competent to do so & this is shown by competing the Part G training & assessment course, which is now renewed every 5 years. So you would be breaking the law if you started doing the work yourself IMHO. Secondly - the parts used should be "like for like" because of the safety implications. If I was asked to install your fitting I would have be satisfied that it was a genuine part & even then would probably not offer any warrantee on the replacement.
By the way we charge more than you have been quoted (inc VAT) but then we do know what we are doing, so much so that we offer a fixed price repair.

many thanks Chris...please don't worry, i am a female and have absolutely no intention of touching this equipment and i had a nasty experience a few years ago where a heating engineer who put in a new boiler for me in my previous home, turned out not to be Gas Safety, Corgi then...so off to court with him via Trading Standards and he got a very large fine!!

The part is exactly the same part no. as the one on the system now...engineer has checked it out and says it is absolutely fine and legal.. ..I am well up on my law as used to be..:bobby:

So the only reason i was querying the price of work is because yes, i have been extremely unlucky in the past and in this house i recently moved in to...basically the previous vendor was not at all truthful in signing the declaration that the boiler was regularly serviced, when clearly it hasn't been serviced by an engineer for some time.

 

[chris watkins]

Thanks everyone...just to clarify, he offered to do it for that price i.e £90 which i am very happy about, was just checking if that was a good price as been so badly stung before. He lives just around the corner from me which is also a bonus and unbenown to me prior to calling him, has done work for a couple of people i know through volunteer work.

No knowledge personally on how to do this valve as not an engineer. The combi valve is below the cylinder, almost at floor level, but engineer has experience of working on this type of system...says it will take around an hour just to drain off.

Yes i was extremely lucky to get the valve at the price i did...it was the only one on ebay:teeth_smile:

Just check that he has his un-vented ticket otherwise you & he are breaking the Law.
A valve installed that low to the ground normally would mean that there are other installation problems. Not trying to generate more work for you but these system can be dangerous if not installed & maintained correctly.

 

[fairylights]

Just check that he has his un-vented ticket otherwise you & he are breaking the Law.
A valve installed that low to the ground normally would mean that there are other installation problems. Not trying to generate more work for you but these system can bedangerous if not installed & maintained correctly.

Ok, thanks Chris, will ask him re his un-vented ticket...you have me worried now when you say about the level of the valve? I am led to believe that the boiler etc was installed around 2004, but the previous engineer that carried out most of the work, tells me the boiler is much older and would not last another 5 years?

This is the trouble you see, everyone tells you different things and that makes me nervous and untrustworthy of engineers sadly.

When you say other installation problems, what exactly do you mean could be wrong?

 

[Ray Stafford]

I am led to believe that the boiler etc was installed around 2004, but the previous engineer that carried out most of the work, tells me the boiler is much older and would not last another 5 years?

This is the trouble you see, everyone tells you different things and that makes me nervous and untrustworthy of engineers sadly.

Which make and model of boiler is it? Some models remain on the market for years, but many have a relatively short lifespan - it may be possible to date the installation (roughly) from the boiler model.

 

[fairylights]

Which make and model of boiler is it? Some models remain on the market for years, but many have a relatively short lifespan - it may be possible to date the installation (roughly) from the boiler model.

Hi Ray, it's a Potterton Profile 50E...most of the problems i have had, have been outside of the boiler (apart from gas valve).

 

[chris watkins]

Which is why it is so important to find an engineer you cant trust, who knows what they are doing, even if you have to pay a bit more.
If you can post a photo of the Megaflo hot water cylinder & surrounding pipework / valve, someone will tell you if there are any problems or not.
These systems have lots of safety devices built-in & are not normally a problem if installed & maintained correctly but need to be take seriously. (check out you tube exploding hot water cylinder myth busters)

 

[Ray Stafford]

Hi Ray, it's a Potterton Profile 50E...most of the problems i have had, have been outside of the boiler (apart from gas valve).

Ok. Blind alley I'm afraid. That boiler model was made for ages.

 

[fairylights]

Which is why it is so important to find an engineer you cant trust, who knows what they are doing, even if you have to pay a bit more.
If you can post a photo of the Megaflo hot water cylinder & surrounding pipework / valve, someone will tell you if there are any problems or not.
These systems have lots of safety devices built-in & are not normally a problem if installed & maintained correctly but need to be take seriously. (check out you tube exploding hot water cylinder myth busters)

here are uploaded photo's

 

[lbp plg & htg]

Oh no, there's the next problem. Tundish place - min of 300mm from tundish to first bend.

 

[deadstare]

Just to add only a qualified person is allowed to work onunvented cylinders so make sure the tradesman you choose is qualified to workon unvented systems even a house holder unless qualified should not be advisedto tamper with controls or attempt to fix themselves

 

[lbp plg & htg]

Just to add only a qualified person is allowed to work onunvented cylinders so make sure the tradesman you choose is qualified to workon unvented systems even a house holder unless qualified should not be advisedto tamper with controls or attempt to fix themselves

Think you might find that the warning label instructs HH on how to recharge airgap?

 

[fairylights]

Oh no, there's the next problem. Tundish place - min of 300mm from tundish to first bend.

Means nothing to me lol!...

 

[Megaflo-Experts]

Means nothing to me lol!...

Regs state the (D2) pipe from the bottom of the tundish should be at least 300mm before the first bend.
Also, the pipe joining in from the right looks suspect! Is it coming from the Pressure Relief Valve on the right side of the cylinder? If so that should join in ABOVE the tundish!

 

[Howsie]

Oh dear. Lots of issues there.

You should be able to change that valve without draining the cylinder.

 

[mountainman]

You should be able to change that valve without draining the cylinder.

if the person changing it is brave I suppose.

Big problem really is the D1 & D2 issues.
If we assume that the brave person has an unvented ticket then would that person be liable for leaving an unsafe situation?

 

[Howsie]

I think they can cover their arses by informing the owner on the receipt.

 

[fairylights]

Oh dear. Lots of issues there.

You should be able to change that valve without draining the cylinder.

Sorry, i dont understand anything to do with this system...lots of issues where please?

If there are so many issues...bearing in mind this system was fitted over 12+ years ago...looked at by numerous qualified engineers, i find it strange that all of a sudden i am being told on here that its got so many issues ....

Are you telling me that its unsafe?

 

[Howsie]

It does not conform to the required standards and yes I would say its unsafe.

For example, if your temperature pressure relief valve discharges I am confident that you'll get very hot water coming out of your tundish. If it was fitted correctly you wouldn't.

That being said I've seen worse.

 

[chris watkins]

What is unsafe ? If you are asking will it blow up then NO. Is it correct as per the manufacturers guidelines / instructions & the requirements of the building regulations then the answer is also no. Could the way it is at present cause problems & if the safety valves discharge then the answer to that is yes.
As ever there are a lot of people out there who do not know what they are doing & very little check to ensure it is done correctly (don't forget anybody can call themselves a plumber).
If you wish to Private message me an email address, I have put some text onto one of your photos (the file size is too large to post on here) to explain what we have been talking about.

Once again not dangerous but wants looking at by some one who knows.

 

[tamz]

^^ I agree. Keep things in perspective and don't scaremonger but a couple of things need looking at which any decent qualified guy will highlight.

 

[lbp plg & htg]

What is unsafe ? If you are asking will it blow up then NO. Is it correct as per the manufacturers guidelines / instructions & the requirements of the building regulations then the answer is also no. Could the way it is at present cause problems & if the safety valves discharge then the answer to that is yes.
As ever there are a lot of people out there who do not know what they are doing & very little check to ensure it is done correctly (don't forget anybody can call themselves a plumber).
If you wish to Private message me an email address, I have put some text onto one of your photos (the file size ir=s too large to post on here) to explain what we have beed talking about.

Once again not dangerous but wants looking at by some one who knows.

Not much is dangerous - but thats till something goes wrong then everything thats wrong could be dangerous.

Just pointing out the obvious, from the pictures, as a duty of care.