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Plumbstar Tom

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It was on ITV last night at 10.35 i think

I saw some of it and learnt some stuff about how as soon as an extension is built on to a house it becomes part of the house owners property whether paid or not so a builder couldn't take it down even if not paid for.

Some nasty pieces of work out there!
 
Plumbstar Tom said:
It was on ITV last night at 10.35 i think

I saw some of it and learnt some stuff about how as soon as an extension is built on to a house it becomes part of the house owners property whether paid or not so a builder couldn't take it down even if not paid for.

Some nasty pieces of work out there!
Click to expand...
once its fitted its theirs doesnt matter what wording you put in contracts or estimates
county court system is useless as some people collect ccj's like stamps
in actual fact you could have your house replumbed wired and decorated and never pay a penny just by disputing everything
we had one where the guy in the house asked us to quote acepted quote we did work he told us he would be back at five never showed up waited till eight o clock no show eventually got him by phone said he was delayed and would meet us in the morning
went round about twenty times never anyone in
eventually got an answer from new tennants who refused to tell us who the land lord was
police wasnt interested as its a civil matter
traced land registry turns out it was sold the day after we did the work
and previous owner was untraceable as he had gone back to india
went back to police and told them it was fraud but they still didnt want to do anything
lucky it was only one days work and a little bit of matierials but leaves a bad taste to this day
 
They are trying to make it a criminal offence

If there is a petition going round I'll sign it along with everyone I know in the trade

Its so bad that a CCJ is just another piece of paper to some

I'd be mortified If i had one

They propse to resolve it by making it a criminal offence and the monies owed to the courts not the installer then the courts pay it back to the installer
 
Plumbstar Tom said:
They are trying to make it a criminal offence

If there is a petition going round I'll sign it along with everyone I know in the trade

Its so bad that a CCJ is just another piece of paper to some

I'd be mortified If i had one

They propse to resolve it by making it a criminal offence and the monies owed to the courts not the installer then the courts pay it back to the installer
Click to expand...

Surely there is something very criminal about deliberately tricking someone into lay out their finances, their time and their skills, whilst having no intention of paying them.
I lost my home and property and everything that I had to a lowlife who got his home at no cost to himself, but at my expense.
It's an horrendous experience and one that never leaves you.
What happened to me could have happened to anyone.
Incidently, I was down in London supporting Nigel at the launch of his website last year and he's a very determined chap. It's just a shame that restrictions were placed on him concerning some of the horror stories that he could have exposed given the chance.
Ah well.
Colin Peters
 
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Having been involved and having intimate knowledge of the Cowboy Customer subject I responded to these postings yesterday, but cannot find my contribution.
Anyone any idea what's gone wrong?
ATB
Colin Peters
 
The fact is people in business see it as a game I know several millionairs who have been bankrupted two or three times, they simply organised it so that they came out winners,
all part of the game to them.
I personally believe that there are no rich people out there who can claim not to have ripped anyone off.
If you want to climb the ladder of success it is a prerequisite that you have to "rip and tear with no dispare"

You all know Lord Hesiltine once quoted he "never pays a bill untill he is on the steps of the court" what he was really saying is push it as far as you can with out actually
breaking the law..
 
i only give credit for small jobs only if customer waiting for hubby.
but on completion's of heating systems clients know in advance to paid me at the end of the day . only one clients mum forgot to go to the bank that day ,but when the client was drop of by his boss , to find the mistake he
jump in his car chase after his boss got a double sub return and paid me

my terms NO CREDIT ,,,,,,,,
 
Colin Peters said:
Having been involved and having intimate knowledge of the Cowboy Customer subject I responded to these postings yesterday, but cannot find my contribution.
Anyone any idea what's gone wrong?
ATB
Colin Peters
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Because you put an external link in ,your post needed approving first..
 
Whats this?
Are we not allowed to link?

I've tried to do the [/url] thing on here and it dosen't work, is that what you mean?
 
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Is there anywhere I can watch this now as ITV are not showing it on there player? :)
 
One thing that might help you with bad clients, is to refuse to do the work until a written estimate had been written out by you the plumber, and counter signed by the client as good for the work to be carried out, with any changes requested by the client treated the same way

Any thing under say a £100 labour costs could be excluded, also state that the rate of interest will be so much above bank lending rate, and will be charged after the first 30 days of non-payment

After 30 days send a registered letter reminder, with the revised invoice, then after another 30 days small claims court them
 
Dave said:
Because you put an external link in ,your post needed approving first..
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Thank you for that information Dave. Has my posting been approved yet? As I recall, it was just a link to my own website which tells of my own experiences at the hands of a cowboy customer and those who wrongly supported his deceptions.
If this has legal implications and is to be censored, then, by way of making other tradesmen aware of the perils which we all face from the rogue elements, I am quite prepared to email any of your members who requests it, a 2 paged copy of an article that I had published in the November 1991 edition of the Masterbuilder Journal entitled "Beware the 'cowboy client'
 
It has been approved colin...;) after all the blog is your blog and not wrote by us..
 
johnmcginty said:
Is there anywhere I can watch this now as ITV are not showing it on there player? :)
Click to expand...

My daughter recorded it on something called, I think, a Virgin V Box.
Whether or not there is a away of transmitting it electronically, I don't know, but if anyone knows how, please inform me and I'll gladly spread it around.
To get up to date on the gist of it all, Google in 'Cowboy Customers' and scroll down and click on "Nigel Gray roots out Cowboy Customers for ITV".
 
Phil said:
Whats this?
Are we not allowed to link?

I've tried to do the [/url] thing on here and it dosen't work, is that what you mean?
Click to expand...


when a member puts a link in thier first post it is automatically un-approved...and needs moderating....helps stop spam..

No reason why you should not be able to use links.......unless you is a spammer..( joke)....:D
 
Plouasne said:
One thing that might help you with bad clients, is to refuse to do the work until a written estimate had been written out by you the plumber, and counter signed by the client as good for the work to be carried out, with any changes requested by the client treated the same way

Any thing under say a £100 labour costs could be excluded, also state that the rate of interest will be so much above bank lending rate, and will be charged after the first 30 days of non-payment

After 30 days send a registered letter reminder, with the revised invoice, then after another 30 days small claims court them
Click to expand...

All good in theory Plous but when the customer says they can't pay as they just lost there husband and they have no insurance and all her money is going on to funeral costs. Then you take the small claims court and escalate to the county court where you get a CCJ for them and they say all they can afford is £1 a month and nothing you can do.

The show really opened up my eyes.

If someone didnt pay me I would accept delays in exceptional circumstances but i do know pursuasive people but its never been uch of a case for me
 
Dave said:
when a member puts a link in thier first post it is automatically un-approved...and needs moderating....helps stop spam..

No reason why you should not be able to use links.......unless you is a spammer..( joke)....:D
Click to expand...

Okay Dokey then Dave. The way I read your posting is that I am now free to re submit my link.
I ask yourself and your members not to belittle the fact that my experiences go back in time 23 years.
The disgrace of it all is that it happened to me all that time ago, and it has happened to thousands of others since, right up to the present date, without any expressed interest or intervention from anyone with the power to do anything about it, including so called Justice Ministers.
Foe 23 years, I have been trying, without success, to get justice, or exposure, through the courts, through the West Yorkshire Police, through MPs, and through the media.
I have discovered beyond doubt that,once you have been dolloped on from a great height by the 'system' then you are completely alone.If you pm me direct i will foward a copy of all that has gone and it will put you in touch with much of what I have experienced.
 
Okay Dokey then Dave. The way I read your posting is that I am now free to re submit my link.
Click to expand...

After i have read that then we cannot let it be viewed publicy incase of repercussions against us but members can pm you direct if they wish to view it..
 
Been away, missed show, is it a weekly show, if so when is it on?

I have come across lots, as I am sure we all have, wonder if I know them :D

You take all reasonable precautions but they always take you by surprise, that one time you are in a good mood or just finished a great job and think you will fit another one in before the weekend ,they strike

Must admit as you get older you seem to be able to spot them easier with experience, still some slip through, especially now thinks are a bit quite you maybe take on projects for people that you would not normally bother with when a bit more busier
 
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I have had a couple of requests to view my own experiences of a cowboy customer and the legal system which is so heavily weighted against us.
I am able to send the url of my website but cannot see anyway to attach my article, 'Beware the 'Cowboy Client' which featured in the November 1991 issue of the Masterbuilder Journal.
Should anyone like a copy of that, then I will need an email address which I can attach documents to.
I thank the chaps who have shown interest and the administrators who have been very helpful in 'spreading the word'.
 
Do any of you guys ask for say 50% up front? My joiner mate does that after getting ripped off to the tune of thousands.
 
Large projects I ask for money for materials once on job or 50% of price, nothing gets fitted until payed
 
I always work on the rule that if not paid then it gets ripped out. Was labouring for a plasterer last year and the bloke wouldnt pay up. He went in with his lump hammer and smashed holes in the walls. Cost the chap double to fix it...
 
I think the answer, as stated, is surely an advance of 50% of monies. If they're the type looking to fleece you they probably won't even have half.
 
some customers may be wary of giving deposits after watching cowboy builders etc, biggest job I had working for myself was installing 3 new toilets(3x WC's and 3x WHBs) with 50L unvented water heater and a kitchen sink, so all new pipework new 4" float etc, all material came to around £2,600 I told customer I wanted that money as soon as materials were on job, and they did.
 
Yes i always get materials money up front and a bit of labour just in case, on big jobs.
 
On large jobs I get my materials upfront then do stage payments so I am fully paid up before the end of the job the final payment is the cream if the customer has been good as gold paying and no problems I will let them off paying, if the customer has been a pain and I have to chase for the money, then I will bill. If they dont pay at all I have found the perfect revenge, its called Japanese knotweed, It grows like crazy costs a fortune to irradicate and if you have it near your house and you try to sell it, mortgage companies will not give the potential buyers a mortgage.
 
unguided1 said:
On large jobs I get my materials upfront then do stage payments so I am fully paid up before the end of the job the final payment is the cream if the customer has been good as gold paying and no problems I will let them off paying, if the customer has been a pain and I have to chase for the money, then I will bill. If they dont pay at all I have found the perfect revenge, its called Japanese knotweed, It grows like crazy costs a fortune to irradicate and if you have it near your house and you try to sell it, mortgage companies will not give the potential buyers a mortgage.
Click to expand...

It's also illegal to plant Japanese knotweed!!!
 
Dave said:
After i have read that then we cannot let it be viewed publicy incase of repercussions against us but members can pm you direct if they wish to view it..
Click to expand...

I know what you mean about repurcussions and understand why you are being carefull but we might ask ourselves why would there be repurcussions is the system trying to kep things secret about how they let people in the wrong get away with murder and guys like colin a tax payer and hard worker lose a lot of money the system needs changing and I thought it was freedom of speech in this country they let us here what they want us to hear and like to keep other things censored
 
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