I did a job in augest 2012 and last week received a letter in the post off there solicitor saying I was liable for a compression fitting leaking and causing some damage in augest 2018! The company I had then stopped trading in March 2015 as I went limited. Does anyone know where I stand etc?
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Customer claiming against you after 6 years!
Discuss Customer claiming against you after 6 years! in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
W
Welder
Oh dear. Might I respectfully suggest you read what's written and not extrapolate to daft conclusions.
I did not say it was about product failure at all. They are likely going to be coming at this from the point of view of a duty of care during the install. If anything is installed in such a manner that it is unprofessional or installed in a manner that goes against manufacturers instructions (unless those instructions can be demonstrated to be contrary to usual or formal standards) then you remain liable until what a judge would describe as a reasonable term has elapsed. That term is not fixed. It depends entirely on what is being discussed.
However, there is a formal and well defined process these scroats need to follow to be even considered in a court of law. This is why I do not believe there is anything to answer here. That said, I am neither a solicitor nor a lawyer so it is well worth the OP speaking to one who specialises in this aspect of the law rather than a generalist.
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Surely theres no claim on this now .
That’s what I would have fort especially when the company doesn’t even exist now and isn’t trading. How doncompanys get away with changing names every year etc
If it was a limited company, then my understanding is that your personal liability for that company's performance is limited, usually to £10. The point is that the company ceased trading and is not you as an individual, so you need to be very careful not to portray yourself as still connected to the company (in spite of the fact that you were the owner back then). So do get proper advice on what not to say or write.
EDIT Just re-read the opening post. When the OP said 'the company ceased trading', I read that to mean it was a limited company. Not sure, on re-reading, if that was the case at all!
Back to liability in general, you are responsible for carrying out the work with due skill and care, and to hide behind the wording of a warranty will not help in court. The warranty is in addition to statutory rights and those rights cannot be deleted by a contract. In practice, firms often do try to hide behind warranty terms and fob people off, but they cannot get away with this if it goes to court.
In practical terms, though, I'd like to know how this customer intends to prove that the failure of the joint is somehow your fault after all this time. I think they will try to push you for an out-of-court settlement because I expect if you dig your heels in and refuse to give one, then they will probably lose the case and leave with nothing.
EDIT Just re-read the opening post. When the OP said 'the company ceased trading', I read that to mean it was a limited company. Not sure, on re-reading, if that was the case at all!
Back to liability in general, you are responsible for carrying out the work with due skill and care, and to hide behind the wording of a warranty will not help in court. The warranty is in addition to statutory rights and those rights cannot be deleted by a contract. In practice, firms often do try to hide behind warranty terms and fob people off, but they cannot get away with this if it goes to court.
In practical terms, though, I'd like to know how this customer intends to prove that the failure of the joint is somehow your fault after all this time. I think they will try to push you for an out-of-court settlement because I expect if you dig your heels in and refuse to give one, then they will probably lose the case and leave with nothing.
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bacon_sandwich
Gas Engineer
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I am an adviser for CAB, yes, its true, there are people here that have a wealth of experience and knowledge. I advise the OP to contact their nearest CAB, it wont be far away, but the general process is that if you receive such a claim, you hand it to your insurance company, who have the skills and resources to determine its merit, generally plumbers dont know the law..... lol
bacon_sandwich
Gas Engineer
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Just because a company is not trading does not mean it is free from all liabilities from the past. Dont forget a company is just a bunch of directors or owners. You have not stated the status of the original company. Dont poo poo this away, it could be a real threat
That is a fair point well made.
bacon_sandwich
Gas Engineer
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OK, as a sole trader, the liability is with you personally. As you can imagine its not much different to owing the gov tax, it carries on as a liability even if you decide to close the company. You can fight it / or ignore it and see if they do take it towards a court (dont ignore court documents) but costs mount up in the process, as mentioned dig out your insurance and hand it over to them. They may well ignore it as well, until court docs are filed, but thats at their cost and risk.
Good Luck
Good Luck
A compression fitting failing after 6 years will be very difficult to prove. I would say the letter is speculative, at best, and probably hoping you will settle with them before it goes any further.
Engaging a solicitor is the best course of action, but you may be better off waiting to see if they escalate it any further before spending any money on one. If you have legal protection on your home insurance, it may be worth checking to see if they will assist in any way (though probably not for a matter related to your profession - worth checking though). If and when they issue court proceedings, I would spend any significant amount of money on legal representation.
I believe small claims are limited to £10,000 using MCOL so if their claim exceeds that, they will no doubt incur fees to pursue this. Chances are they are using their home insurance, so the insurance company would have to make a reasonable judgement on whether it is worth them spending money on pursuing this claim - they'll probably decide it is not.
Engaging a solicitor is the best course of action, but you may be better off waiting to see if they escalate it any further before spending any money on one. If you have legal protection on your home insurance, it may be worth checking to see if they will assist in any way (though probably not for a matter related to your profession - worth checking though). If and when they issue court proceedings, I would spend any significant amount of money on legal representation.
I believe small claims are limited to £10,000 using MCOL so if their claim exceeds that, they will no doubt incur fees to pursue this. Chances are they are using their home insurance, so the insurance company would have to make a reasonable judgement on whether it is worth them spending money on pursuing this claim - they'll probably decide it is not.
Spoke to a solicitor today got to send the letter across to them. They said it would be very hard for them to prove after 6 years that it was my fault, and if the system has been worked on after the Blame could lie elsewhere. They reckon there just trying to scare me
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This is what I said in my two posts above. The OP needs to seek the advice of a legal professional or his local Citizens Advice as I doubt anyone on a plumbing forum is qualified to do so.
Calm down whoever you are. Your posts are aggressive and way over the top on what is supposed to be a friendly forum
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You seemed happy to dish it out on a previous thread Cailean so can`t have it both ways I`m afraid.
Last thing we want to see is handbags at dawn however there will always be disagreements on open forums regardless of the topic.
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In fairness Cailean, Dave said much what I would have said, even if he did say it less diplomatically. Your post does read as if you assumed the issue was about product failure, and your comment that liability ends with the warranty is helpful, useful, and wrong. Dave was right to pull you up on a point of fact.
Look up the consumer rights act and the former sale of goods act and you will see that a warranty does not end liability.
I know this for a fact as I had to get Trading Standards involved when I, as a consumer, bought a replacement kettle for my own electric shower direct from Triton. Triton initially said it was unfortunate that it only lasted 4 months, but the warranty was only for 90 days so I could get knotted, basically. Trading Standards took a very dim view of this.
Look up the consumer rights act and the former sale of goods act and you will see that a warranty does not end liability.
I know this for a fact as I had to get Trading Standards involved when I, as a consumer, bought a replacement kettle for my own electric shower direct from Triton. Triton initially said it was unfortunate that it only lasted 4 months, but the warranty was only for 90 days so I could get knotted, basically. Trading Standards took a very dim view of this.
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Why didn't you take it back to the store ?
The original shower was not the item I was complaining about: it had had lasted a reasonable time.
The replacement part failed after 4 months. Given that the replacement part was purchased direct from Triton's own mail-order service, Triton had both 90-day warranty obligations and statutary obligations under the Sale of Goods Act as it was both the manufacturer and the retailer, but it conveniently ignored the latter until Trading Standards got involved.
One TS was involved, a replacement kettle was sent to me as soon as I returned the one that had failed in 4 months.
I never supply Triton showers to customers, and I tell them why!
The replacement part failed after 4 months. Given that the replacement part was purchased direct from Triton's own mail-order service, Triton had both 90-day warranty obligations and statutary obligations under the Sale of Goods Act as it was both the manufacturer and the retailer, but it conveniently ignored the latter until Trading Standards got involved.
One TS was involved, a replacement kettle was sent to me as soon as I returned the one that had failed in 4 months.
I never supply Triton showers to customers, and I tell them why!
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My original comment to the OP is I'm sure one that we all can agree on, and that is to seek advice from a legal professional or a trained advisor from Citizen's Advice. A lawyer can't give gas advice and I'm sure most plumbers can't give legal advice either. We know our limitations.
Everyone chill and cuddle and make up.
Everyone chill and cuddle and make up.
If the op was insured in 2012 best approach would be to hand it to that insurer. Most insurance has terms to insist on handling all correspondence relating to a claim and any direct response to the first letter could invalidate the insurance.
At very least get in touch with the insurer to tell them what's going on, then do what they say so the liability remains theirs.
At very least get in touch with the insurer to tell them what's going on, then do what they say so the liability remains theirs.
It's statements like this that show why you shouldn't seek legal advice from plumbers! A lot of people call themselves companies when they are sole traders. If you've not set up a company you are either a sole trader or a partner and you could be fully liable.
Worse case scenario was joint leaking from day 1 and it was concealed and not found till recently. Who knows. The onus is on the customer to show why they think you are to blame. It'll be interesting to know your solicitor's opinion and that of your insurer.
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I think you will find that if the company is no longer trading then they have no claim, unless they want to sue you personally.
Always get legal advice
Definitely a case for not changing insurers year by year? If you can stay with the same company you can ask for their help, ie. " you insured me for the last ten years, it's your liability too."
If you swap for cheaper insurance year on year then they can then get out of it.
I still get quotes from other companies but often my current insurers match the price.
If you swap for cheaper insurance year on year then they can then get out of it.
I still get quotes from other companies but often my current insurers match the price.
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Don`t believe insurance companies know the word loyalty tbh.
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