Facebook and social media advertising

[Harvest Fields]

I have to say I completely disagree with the long post above. I have never lost a job because I don’t have an online presence. All posting your work does is show that someone thinks they are superior.

In my mind it shows SOME good skills but to me the real tester is when you are trying to plumb in a boiler in an airing cupboard of about the same width with old pipes coming up down left and right where the old layout of the boiler isn’t F, H, G, C, R and still making it look a nice neat job. That to me is more of a skill than having a blank canvas and free reins to run all new pipes where you like. Stopping to take a picture when you arrive at an emergency is just crass. Here I am 15 mins after being called, here’s the flood, oh the poor customers property. I fixed it well done me.

I’m sorry it’s a load of old tosh. I get new and repeat work because I’m polite to my customers, I show interest in their lives even if on that day I’m having a bad day. I always say if you have any problems with what I’ve done, no matter how small please call me. Sure some photos of a nicely finished bathroom are a nice to have but keep them in an album on a tablet or on a laptop.

I hear more people cynically saying “oh I don’t use checkatrade because all the reviews are made up aren’t they?” And that’s customers saying it not contractors.

In my humble opinion I think all customers young and old respond to politeness, punctuality, showing interest in the project or job no matter how small, making at least 5 minutes to have a chat with your customer at the end and explain what you’ve done and why you’ve done it. That to me is far more important than a bells and whistles website or FB page.

So your saying don’t bother?

 

[Riley]

Harv that’s exactly what I’m saying.

Not everything these days is solved with technology and flashing lights. Sometimes you have to do the graft and actually deal with customers direct.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Harv that’s exactly what I’m saying.

Not everything these days is solved with technology and flashing lights. Sometimes you have to do the graft and actually deal with customers direct.

I’m doing good without Facebook. Only thought about it as I keep getting asked.

 

[Millsy 82]

Just in case anyone was getting depressed
View attachment 39304

Now were talking.

 

[Millsy 82]

Tony Dumble on Instagram: “Little first fix soldering, check out the pinky for stabilisation #plumbing #soldering #solder #pipeperfect #plumbproud #copper…”

No way is that enough solder in there. I like to see a small ring of solder around the fitting as you know it has gone well.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No way is that enough solder in there. I like to see a small ring of solder around the fitting as you know it has gone well.

So do I but don’t think he has any problems with leaks so each to there own

 

[JasetheMace]

So do I but don’t think he has any problems with leaks so each to there own

I like to see a nice fat solid splodge of solder! About 5mm wide

 

[JasetheMace]

Anybody want to fit a kitchen in Lincoln?

 

[Rob Foster]

If I may please give my perspective as a consumer, as I've read threads in the past about Checkatrade also but what is missing from these threads is the consumer's viewpoint.
I apologise in advance for the long post (I've had to put it in 2 posts ), or if I say the wrong thing, but I hope that it is useful to you. This is a very helpful forum and I'd like to give back to it by giving my perspective...

Yes for exactly that, if they have one.

Yes. If I'm looking around it is all about trust. So having a website and a Facebook page with regular postings on Facebook will certainly gain my trust. There are even some sole-traders now that only have a Facebook page (so it can be very difficult to search for these businesses sometimes) and a mobile number - no website and sometimes no address listed. I'm not so trusting of this (anyone can setup a Facebook page) but with regular postings of their work on their Facebook page, it goes a long way to show credibility and build trust - it is free and easy for them to do and gets them an online presence without the cost and hassle, so I get it. As other's have mentioned, I feel/find that if a business only has a presence on Facebook, it could be because they are keeping their overheads low and so their prices are often lower also. Therefore, I'd question why this is and for example, I'd be wary about engaging a plumber that only has a Facebook page, but I wouldn't have an issue engaging a gardener that only has a Facebook page. I try and weigh everything up.

Here's what I do when I am in a new area/need a new tradesperson (in order):
I don't use Google for finding Tradespeople. Why? Because of the issue of searching for "local plumber" and ending up with a company that is based somewhere completely different that is sub-contracting to my area. I can usually tell by looking at the website. I'm not going to waste my time with Google.

1. I will think about vans that I have seen driving around and local ads in newspapers/community ads and look them up - see if they have a website and facebook to get an idea about the company - if they are what I am looking for I put them on my shortlist.
2. I will ask for a recommendation from a friend/work colleague but preferably from another tradesman if I'm in contact with one. If they are what I am looking for I put them on my shortlist.
   
   The above 2 are the easiest but aren't always the most successful for me because of 1. finding the ads again. Unless you (as a business) keep advertising every week, I (as a consumer) have likely thrown out your advert! So I try and keep a weekly newspaper and the community ad around for this very purpose - but it is difficult with so much marketing material coming through the door. Secondly, for various reasons, I don't have a network of contacts that I can call upon to get recommendations.
   
3. For this reason, I usually end up on checkatrade which I find helpful for the following reasons:
   The businesses are vetted as genuine to me as being local.
   Checkatrade encourages a tradesperson to put much more information on their profile than their website often contains such as: Their qualifications, any CRB checks, whether they are 24hrs (for emergencies), an introduction to their business and what they can do (you can select from a long list chosen by checkatrade), any specialisms, any photos of their work. I look at a selection of their reviews but I take them with a pinch of salt as I know that the tradesman asks the customer to make the review so this can lead to only the "good" customers being asked to review. However, I do take note of the other stats such as tidiness, and invoicing. What I find helpful from Checkatrade also is that they verify with the tradesman their public liability insurance, which always feels awkward if I have to do it (almost feels like I don't trust them) and I have had replies of "I don't have it with me".
   I value Which Trusted Trader's standards better (because I believe they are more stringent) than Checkatrade but Which don't have all of the above information that Checkatrade do, nor do they have as many tradespeople listed.
   I have to be honest, I very rarely remember that there are other websites such as trustatrader available, I just stick to those 2.
4. If all else fails (ie. Checkatrade doesn't have what I'm after), I'll use Yell (online).
5. For heating/plumbing, I may have also looked on the manufacturer's accredited installer list - try and cross reference with checkatrade. I might have also cross referenced or looked on watersafe.

When I'm going through Checkatrade/Which/Yell/boiler manufacturer's accredited installer list, I'm looking to put people on my shortlist.
When I'm looking on Checkatrade, I already know they should be genuine. Sometimes a tradesperson just lists on Checkatrade and subsequently has no website or Facebook and relies on that. In this case, I understand if a tradesperson doesn't have a website, and it's OK as Checkatrade has vetted them. So I'm happy to add anyone suitable to my shortlist.
Same goes for Boiler manufacturer's accredited installer list, anyone on there I trust to be genuine.
It is more difficult if I have had to resort to Yell. I find that most listings on Yell don't give me the information that I'm after (some are just blank!), there are just too many listings to go through and particularly if I'm intending to spend a lot of money/it's a big job, therefore, only businesses with a website will go on my shortlist. The problem is that anyone can list in Yell (and anyone can make a website). I've also got to be wary that the Yell listing is not a national company sub-contracting locally again. I'll look for businesses that have been on Yell for a long time and have some reviews on Yell or I'll Google them and look for their Google reviews. No reviews isn't necessarily a bad thing in my eyes - it just means that everyone is happy.

I'll have a shortlist with various weightings in my mind depending on where I have got their details from and what feeling I have got from their website and if they have a Facebook page, this will add further weightings.
I'll give my preferred choice a call first and (hopefully they will answer), have a chat and go from there. If they don't answer, I'll leave a message or call later and move on to the next choice.

Thats great insight thank you
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Rob Foster]

It is important to separate selling and marketing I only really got to understand this recently.
A small ready established outfit
probably sells its service by reputation and word of mouth and its customers have already made their mind up before they call or know a happy customer
A new or expanding outfit needs to market..which is the facebook type model ..which says ..hello I am out here have a look
There is no right and wrong but you need to understand what you want to do to be effective
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Rob Foster]

Modern young couples with an SUV maybe kid and a mortgage are facebook people but local type people with connections will go by word of mouth
centralheatking

 

[Millsy 82]

So do I but don’t think he has any problems with leaks so each to there own

Or they dont say they have a problem with leaks. I just imagine those are the types of fittings that 10 years down the line your working on something further down and they come apart in your hands.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Or they dont say they have a problem with leaks. I just imagine those are the types of fittings that 10 years down the line your working on something further down and they come apart in your hands.

Normally happens to me anyway find the flux has held them

 

[Alk]

@JasetheMace Oh, I'm so relieved and pleased that you have found my advice helpful.
If I may suggest something else?
Ask your customers (especially new enquiries) "Have you checked out my facebook page?" and see their response. Ask them to follow you if you feel comfortable about it (they may do so without being asked).
2 things will come out of that question: 1. They may follow you and build up your network. 2. You are doing some market research and you may find that people have already checked you out but you just didn't know about it.

When I call people up, I try and tell people where I found them to help them know where their leads are coming from.

Like your colleagues have said, I also don't think that Facebook advertising (paid for adverts that is) would attract the type of customers that you would want by the sounds of things. I don't know how much Facebook advertising costs, but if it were me, and I know that it is controversial amongst the trades, but I see it from a consumer's point of view here, I would put the money into Checkatrade rather.
The electricians forums had a couple of recent threads about Checkatrade, which are a balanced read:
Trusted Trader/Bark/MyBuilder/CheckaTrade in a new area
Trust a trader, checkatrade, rated people
I know of heating businesses that have been long established but are on Checkatrade and have been for many years. I also know of plumbers that move to a new area and put themselves on Checkatrade to build up their business.

I don't want to dig up my long post again but I forgot to mention that doing what is easiest also comes into it. If someone comes recommended (or they know of a company), then that is much easier and a shorter route for the consumer to get the job done, without the risk of trying someone "untested". However, not everyone has the ability to ask a friend and so a tradesperson showing work that they have done on Facebook is effectively showing that other people have "tested" them out, but with photographic evidence of their work and they are varied, regular postings. It is far more believable/trustworthy than reading reviews - the consumer can see for themselves.

In my humble opinion I think all customers young and old respond to politeness, punctuality, showing interest in the project or job no matter how small, making at least 5 minutes to have a chat with your customer at the end and explain what you’ve done and why you’ve done it. That to me is far more important than a bells and whistles website or FB page.

I totally agree on that, and it's especially important as you say for repeat business. But how does one "get your foot in the door" in the first instance? Amongst all of the competition out there, how do you ensure that you get the call rather than a competitor. That's what I was trying to give my perspective on as a consumer.
Marketing is showing off, but you are showing off to potential customers. The type of posts I'm referring to on Facebook are aimed at potential customers that do not have the knowledge and understanding as those in the industry do.
The likes of the Instagram video are aimed at showing off to others in the industry.

It is important to separate selling and marketing I only really got to understand this recently.
A small ready established outfit
probably sells its service by reputation and word of mouth and its customers have already made their mind up before they call or know a happy customer
A new or expanding outfit needs to market..which is the facebook type model ..which says ..hello I am out here have a look
There is no right and wrong but you need to understand what you want to do to be effective
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

You are exactly right and have put that very well Rob. Basically, a consumer would think, why should I pay sole-trader X, whom I don't know at all, versus X company whom I have heard of? And then it comes back to the issue of trust and back to my long post.

As you say Rob, Checkatrade and Facebook is only of use if you need to become established or expand - ie. market to those that are not reached via word of mouth. If you are already at the stage that you have enough work through word of mouth then you have to consider if you want to have the associated upkeep of such sites. They could still be of advantage to you or they could be a hindrance.

In the case of @Harvest Fields for example then, unless you wish to expand, by "onboarding" your existing clients to write you Facebook reviews, there seems to be little point in you setting up a Facebook page as you are doing fine. I've been thinking about why your customers may be asking you to setup a Facebook page Harvest Fields and I just think that it is because customers can see that your work is extremely good and feel that you should be showcasing it/yourself so that they can refer their Facebook friends to you via it.
But this can be done with a website that has a number of photos on it and customers can refer that way - there is no need to build up the same level of trust with a word of mouth referral.
Another reason could be effort - customers can easily Mention you on Facebook and it is easy for them to make a referral. But this puts the burden on you to have a Facebook page, unless you were happy with it just being a holding page with your contact details.
Having a Facebook page also opens you up to another issue - Facebook messaging - I wouldn't want to start getting into Facebook messaging over some complex issue. Rather pick up the phone - I'm sure you would too. I suppose it can be dealt with by just asking the customer to call you - but it's another app to have on your phone so that you don't miss any messages.

I apologise in advance, I don't mean to tread on anyone's toes, I am just trying to be helpful.

 

[JasetheMace]

@JasetheMace Oh, I'm so relieved and pleased that you have found my advice helpful.
If I may suggest something else?
Ask your customers (especially new enquiries) "Have you checked out my facebook page?" and see their response. Ask them to follow you if you feel comfortable about it (they may do so without being asked).
2 things will come out of that question: 1. They may follow you and build up your network. 2. You are doing some market research and you may find that people have already checked you out but you just didn't know about it.

When I call people up, I try and tell people where I found them to help them know where their leads are coming from.

Like your colleagues have said, I also don't think that Facebook advertising (paid for adverts that is) would attract the type of customers that you would want by the sounds of things. I don't know how much Facebook advertising costs, but if it were me, and I know that it is controversial amongst the trades, but I see it from a consumer's point of view here, I would put the money into Checkatrade rather.
The electricians forums had a couple of recent threads about Checkatrade, which are a balanced read:
Trusted Trader/Bark/MyBuilder/CheckaTrade in a new area
Trust a trader, checkatrade, rated people
I know of heating businesses that have been long established but are on Checkatrade and have been for many years. I also know of plumbers that move to a new area and put themselves on Checkatrade to build up their business.

I don't want to dig up my long post again but I forgot to mention that doing what is easiest also comes into it. If someone comes recommended (or they know of a company), then that is much easier and a shorter route for the consumer to get the job done, without the risk of trying someone "untested". However, not everyone has the ability to ask a friend and so a tradesperson showing work that they have done on Facebook is effectively showing that other people have "tested" them out, but with photographic evidence of their work and they are varied, regular postings. It is far more believable/trustworthy than reading reviews - the consumer can see for themselves.


I totally agree on that, and it's especially important as you say for repeat business. But how does one "get your foot in the door" in the first instance? Amongst all of the competition out there, how do you ensure that you get the call rather than a competitor. That's what I was trying to give my perspective on as a consumer.
Marketing is showing off, but you are showing off to potential customers. The type of posts I'm referring to on Facebook are aimed at potential customers that do not have the knowledge and understanding as those in the industry do.
The likes of the Instagram video are aimed at showing off to others in the industry.


You are exactly right and have put that very well Rob. Basically, a consumer would think, why should I pay sole-trader X, whom I don't know at all, versus X company whom I have heard of? And then it comes back to the issue of trust and back to my long post.

As you say Rob, Checkatrade and Facebook is only of use if you need to become established or expand - ie. market to those that are not reached via word of mouth. If you are already at the stage that you have enough work through word of mouth then you have to consider if you want to have the associated upkeep of such sites. They could still be of advantage to you or they could be a hindrance.

In the case of @Harvest Fields for example then, unless you wish to expand, by "onboarding" your existing clients to write you Facebook reviews, there seems to be little point in you setting up a Facebook page as you are doing fine. I've been thinking about why your customers may be asking you to setup a Facebook page Harvest Fields and I just think that it is because customers can see that your work is extremely good and feel that you should be showcasing it/yourself so that they can refer their Facebook friends to you via it.
But this can be done with a website that has a number of photos on it and customers can refer that way - there is no need to build up the same level of trust with a word of mouth referral.
Another reason could be effort - customers can easily Mention you on Facebook and it is easy for them to make a referral. But this puts the burden on you to have a Facebook page, unless you were happy with it just being a holding page with your contact details.
Having a Facebook page also opens you up to another issue - Facebook messaging - I wouldn't want to start getting into Facebook messaging over some complex issue. Rather pick up the phone - I'm sure you would too. I suppose it can be dealt with by just asking the customer to call you - but it's another app to have on your phone so that you don't miss any messages.

I apologise in advance, I don't mean to tread on anyone's toes, I am just trying to be helpful.

A whole load of great advice, should of mentioned that we have just moved and looking to expand, plus we are already paying a lot of money on other advertising, rather not say which as they all work brilliantly, I have been here 12 months now and not 1 days break. Facebook is part of my expansion plans. Last winter I was doing 12 hour days and only arrived in area 4 months before, this winter I think we will be non stop but not quite enough to take on an engineer full time.