gas analizer

[GavinSmith77]

Hi

Does anyone know if it is true that by febuary anyone fitting a new boiler will have to have a combustion analizer to commission the boiler ?

 

[obseen16]

not sure if its happening in febuary but yes they are bringing it in some time over 2010 that not only do you have to have a combustion analyser but you also have to be qualified to use it to. another course costing £100 plus, think its CPA1 but i might be wrong,

 

[stevetheplumber]

Hi

Does anyone know if it is true that by febuary anyone fitting a new boiler will have to have a combustion analizer to commission the boiler ?

what ive heard is you will need to do the course before you can take the acs next time
however youll need it soon to install any appliance thats a certanty some manufacturers already ask that ratios are checked ive got a brand new tpi on ebay at this moment if your looking for one

 

[migoplumber]

most boiler manufacturers require on the benchmark ticket (that you have to fill in to obtain a guarantee) that you fill in flue gas analysis ratios to prove the correct combustion is happening. (its also good practice)at the moment you dont have to have CPA1 to fill in the benchmark. there is talk as steve says of making it compulsory on the acs system. thats as much as i know !

 

[wnjswozo]

if fitting worcester boilers ,vailliant,you have to use fga for benchmark,and gassafe inspectors will want you to do it if your inspected on worcester install,as i found last year,next day on fga course,day after bought fga.gas safe inspector was admant you couldnt commission without one.

 

[quality]

Analysers all the way how the hell can you commission a condensing boiler correctly without one or for that matter adjust it for proper efficient operation - its the future

 

[wnjswozo]

here here

 

[radswilldo]

Worcester is the only manufacturer that demands this on install, vaillant want it, like other manufacturers, when replacing gas valve. They will all ask for it soon. Mentioned this in another thread, rang corgi in 2007 & 2008, gas safe this year, it is not yet a legal requirement, the problem is that no one can tell you when it will be. This annoys me as I dont want to part with money for an analyser that doesn't fulfill future requirements.

 

[quality]

You don`t have to have legal requirements to do your job right, some may want some may not - do a proper job, charge a proper price eveyones happy - that my opinion

 

[radswilldo]

Very good Quality, are you saying that without an analyser you can say a boiler is unsafe

 

[Puddle]

Gas analysers make your job easier(suits me),quicker (suits me) and you look more proffesional (which for me takes some doing )and the little print out looks good on the paperwork and covers your as#
And the purchase cost with wireless printer,probe and case is quite reasonable against alot of other gas related equiptment

The calibration and service charge is to much but hopefully that will come down as more are sold and used
Hopefully soon they will do a full range of colours and matching accessories,to match my dell laptop and ipod

I also have a temperature sensor on mine so you can tell when the barbies hot enough and the chickens done and the beers are cold enough worth the expence in itself

Funny enough they do'nt cover the barbie bit on the course you go on

 

[Kip]

It is true, as of Febuary all boiler and space heater installations will need to be gas flue anaylised. The course is a CPA1 course which is about a day long and the cost i beleive is £100.

 

[migoplumber]

technically you could call them unsafe if not tested with analyser, firstly you havnt installed to manufacturers instructions (if they ask you to record co levels/ratios and you havnt) secondly, how do you know that its not a friday afternoon boiler the testing engineer in factory forgot to set the gas air ratio correctly, and now its throwing 200ppm co out the flue, killing the neighbours cat.

 

[Puddle]

and now its throwing 200ppm co out the flue, killing the neighbours cat.

Well you would know, like,coz cat would not move, like, when you kicked it,like and its food bowl would still be full next day,like,know what I mean bro

Would HE boiler still work if burning so incorrectly out of interest ?

And why are the official allowable limits so high ?

 

[migoplumber]

cruel dead cat kicker

allowable limits set by blokes wearing suits sat in offices - easily explained

as for he boilers, i imagine you'd need a friday afternoon pcb to escape the net, as they seem to be more controlled by fan speed/gas input ratio.

probably getting off topic a bit, apologies but it was an added question.

i love my cats.

nasty plumberman working next door

 

[JULIED444]

Piper Assessment in Swanley Kent, are doing the gas flue analyser courses - its half a day - for £230 - what a con! But unfortunately, it has to be done - if anyone knows of another training centre in Kent, Sussex or Surrey that is doing it cheaper - please email back.

 

[kirkgas]

It is true, as of Febuary all boiler and space heater installations will need to be gas flue anaylised. The course is a CPA1 course which is about a day long and the cost i beleive is £100.

kip i'm not sure if i misread your post or your have picked up some info wrongly
anyone undertaking CEN1 and/or HTR1 after feb 2010 needs to have CPA1 included in their course, anyone already holding CEN1 and/or HTR1 will have until April 2012, or when the tickets run out if before this date to get the qualification, not sure exactly how it is going to be structured yet as we are looking at it at the moment, but it will include training/assessment on a flueless fire,
the need to use a FGA on an appliance is dependant on MI, some demand via service and or maintenance tasks that a FGA is used to confirm CO/CO2 ratio, or CO ppm, so it wont be date dependant whether you use one or not, that requirement has not/will not change. the prob arises on appliances that require it and it is done by someone who has not proved competance on using a FGA, (ie taking CPA1) these are the rules as i understand them, not my opinion, there are thousands of commercial guys who know far more about using a FGA than i ever will, but i am qualified to teach/assess CPA1 and therein is the problem the industry has, it is seen by many as a money making scheme rather than a safety thing, (why are cookers not included springs to mind if it is safety based)

 

[Kip]

kip i'm not sure if i misread your post or your have picked up some info wrongly
anyone undertaking CEN1 and/or HTR1 after feb 2010 needs to have CPA1 included in their course, anyone already holding CEN1 and/or HTR1 will have until April 2012, or when the tickets run out if before this date to get the qualification, not sure exactly how it is going to be structured yet as we are looking at it at the moment, but it will include training/assessment on a flueless fire,
the need to use a FGA on an appliance is dependant on MI, some demand via service and or maintenance tasks that a FGA is used to confirm CO/CO2 ratio, or CO ppm, so it wont be date dependant whether you use one or not, that requirement has not/will not change. the prob arises on appliances that require it and it is done by someone who has not proved competance on using a FGA, (ie taking CPA1) these are the rules as i understand them, not my opinion, there are thousands of commercial guys who know far more about using a FGA than i ever will, but i am qualified to teach/assess CPA1 and therein is the problem the industry has, it is seen by many as a money making scheme rather than a safety thing, (why are cookers not included springs to mind if it is safety based)

And as most peoples GSR reg is up for renewal in April as that was the change over date, they won't be elligable to renew if they dont hold the CPA1 qualification.

This is what Mr.GSR told me on my last inspection 3 weeks ago..

 

[BoilerPro]

I really can't understand why anyone would want to work on boilers without an analyser. I can only speak for oil as I don't do gas, but I wouldn't attempt to service a burner without analysing it after. Too many times I've seen "clean" exhaust coming from the flue to find that when I go to analyse it the CO is through the roof and I have to reduce the air. And sometimes the air does not have to be reduced by that much. Also, it is a huge plus when looking for new business that you can include a printout showing the customer the CO and the efficiency. Yes it's costly to buy the kit, but if you're working on boilers regularly it's essential.

Kevin

 

[prs1]

Very soon all boiler manufacturers wiil be asking you to carry ouy a fga on commision and service,The only reason they havent upto know(some manufacturers)is because of sales! One asks for it, one doesnt, the engineer that hasnt got it may buy something else until it all changed over.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

done my fga on my last refresher very easy we install flueless fires from time to time so wanted it for that, interesting that baxi dont ask for it on there band b performas/105 etc but do on the band a combis

 

[kirkgas]

And as most peoples GSR reg is up for renewal in April as that was the change over date, they won't be elligable to renew if they dont hold the CPA1 qualification.

This is what Mr.GSR told me on my last inspection 3 weeks ago..

if i was you i would check with your GSR inspector because i dont think the advice he has given you is correct, if i get told i dont need to get CPA1 until April 2012, then GSR MUST allow me to work on boilers and fires between April 2011 and April 2012, i think i will have a nosey on GSR site to see if i can see anything