gas fires

[michael11]

does anyone know any good books or websites on gas fires

 

[migoplumber]

try reading the gas safety regulations

 

[newbie1]

there is a good one called
how to kill someone really easy
by mr ivor noidea

 

[Bernie2]

Take no notice of the "secret guys".
Download the installation instructions off say the Valor gas fire site. You can download one of every type of fire. You can learn quite a bit from them.

Its probably where the "secret guys" or their tutors learnt it from themselves.

You can also get some CITB course notes for a reasonable cost which are pretty good. Try e-bay for Viper books or similar. Tolley's is said to be good but what a price!

 

[newbie1]

jesus bernie nothing to do with being secret gas fires are prob one of the most dangerous appliances going and here you are telling a diyer how to get fitting info

 

[Bernie2]

Hi! Newbie!

What is wrong with you guys?

Knowledge perhaps helps safety, if he is a DIYer and I don't know whether he is or not. It advises him quite plainly in the installation instructions that he should get a GaSafe engineer to install his fire. Hopefully he will read the instructions and think twice about doing it himself once he sees what is involved.

Incidentally there is nothing to stop anybody, providing they are competent, from installing a gas fire in their own home. Gas Fitters are not the only people who can read gas regs so can DIYers.

I would prefer that instead of doing it thinking they know what they are doing, and deciding they are competent, they knew the right way to do it and decide the job is to much for them if they are not competent.

Whatever is wrong with that?

Anyway they can probably go to Wickes and pick up a leaflet that will tell them anyway.

 

[newbie1]

so joe bloggs off the street gets his fire and thinks i know how to fit this ime not paying anyone and you think the piece of paper telling him to get an engineer is going to stop him you dont still wait for santa on the 24th do you

i fitted a boiler for a neighbour the other day guy is a bit of a handyman read how to do it fitted fire himself but didnt bother to read the bit about compression fitting being accessible and had a drop on the pipework

DIY AND GAS DOESNT GO no matter how much joe public reads his book

 

[migoplumber]

bernie - i love your post's and you are full of wisdom and i totally respect you, but newbie is totally correct.
this guy is a diy'er - thats why i advised him to read the regs - he aint going to in my opinion.
im pretty sure he knows this and is searching the web looking for an answer as to why his fire is spilling into the room and his engineer has labelled it ar and turned it off. engineer has left and he has turned it on whilst looking for an answer. 2 things here. 1stly another reason to cap off appliances and 2ndly these clonkers should not have any access to any gas related information.
they should know that its not just a 5k fine for fiddling, we need more of these idiots to kill themselves and their familys to highlight the point that they should not fiddle. harsh yes, but that will eliminates clonker custards and cowboy imitation gas safe fiddlers.

 

[REDSAW]

think i shall sell tech ebooks on ebay say £5 each?. more money in it than plumbing.........

 

[prs1]

This is why the users instructions that come with a new appliance are usally in the form of a seperate smaller booklet, and why how too take the appliance apart is not included!
THEY DO NOT NEED TO KNOW THIS! JUST HOW TO USE IT SAFELY!
The seperate bigger book for the GSR engineer,as it usually says in the first lines!
A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE MAKES PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY ARE COMPETANT
IF THEY ALL KNEW ABOUT FLAME PICTURE ETC THERE WOULD BE ALOT OF PI55ED ENGINEERS CALLED OUT TO PERFECTLY GOOD ILFE FIRES.
Thats what they pay us for isnt it!

 

[Bernie2]

What odd mails!

Are we going back to the age of the Medieval Guild's when it was a crime to give away trade secrets? Seems so!

But they are secrets that concern personal safety and possibly other peoples.

Lets put the cheque book thinking away and how much we can screw out of people by keeping our work secret, and be a bit more concerned for the welfare of all.

This is the age of knowledge not the dinosaur. And everybody should be free to pursue that knowledge for free. What they do with that knowledge is up to them not us.

Lets be honest, if gas appliance manufacturers decided to keep their installation and service instructions to themselves and declare, only their own people can fit appliances, as they are the only ones allowed to know how. Then I suppose 90% of gas fitters would be on the dole tomorrow.

You can't have secrecy and not expect others to perhaps want it as well, if it gives them a trading advantage?

All this secrecy is silly! And in this case added safety is perhaps the reward.

Don't forget anybody can become a gas fitter now days, my local free paper has been carrying an advert for a three week gas fitting course. The thing is the only differnece between them and what I am trying to say, is that I would give the info away free and they want to make a packet out of it.

Supported I suppose by an industry that appear to want things kept secret to perhaps justify high prices not perhaps improve safety for all.

Interestingly, somebody I know, who is not a car mechanic, like some people coming on the website openly say they are not Plumbers. Decided they might change the plugs on their new car, having probably done it on older models. But one look at what is really involved in the job and they are looking for a mechanic first.

The same applies to gas fitting.

Justlead would probably laugh his socks off if somebody thought lead dressing was just a case of hitting a piece of lead with a stick. But show them how its done and you probably get a "No thank you!" or "Teach me how to do it" not "I can do that!"

The forum approach seems to look at things to much from a gas fitters angle and not a DIYers. It is after all, an advice forum, not a policeman telling everybody they are breaking laws they perhaps know nothing about.

 

[migoplumber]

its a plumbers forum bernie.
NOT a help diyers gas forum!

 

[newbie1]

its a plumbers forum bernie.
NOT a help diyers gas forum!

and that sums it up perfectly i totally dissagree in telling people how to do gas work because guess what everyone they dont want to know the meaning of life they want to know how to do gas work without paying a trained engineer

 

[prs1]

There is a big differance between some one who is trying to learn a trade and hopfully make a professional living and somebody signing onto a forum on the internet hoping for a quick cheap fix usually as a result of having a go and balls ing it up or and this is the key part OUT OF THEIR DEPTH & and u want too supply more info.
Not only that the name of the forum implys that it is used by professionals which it is on the most but what would happen in the worst case senario if some one was armed with advise of here and something went wrong,just giving a diagnosis on say a boiler might then lead someone to hav ago.
I know most people wont but one might beliveing he has sought profesional advise.
We live in a day and age were when ever something goes wrong there has to be a whipping boy-Look at the bloke last week he had already replaced most componants in his daughters boiler,she cant afford a new boiler he quotes if he thought about it and really cared about her he would pay for the service it so obviously needed and stop tinkering!

Rant over some good posts lad keep it up

 

[Bernie2]

Come on guys, you can now go on a course and come out a Gas Fitter after three to six weeks. It can't be that hard a job to learn.

Training should be free and on going, not expensive and restricted.

What would you think if others restricted their knowledge?

What if an appliance maker did not give help to others using their products? They would probably be out of work over night. Even Valliant, once reputed to be an unhelpful company when it came to technical questions about their boilers, seem to have changed.

If we expect others to be open, why should not others expect us to be open, and particularly where the safety of everybody is concerned.

In my experience being open brings in more work not less.

Its up to a DIYer what they do with the info, so long as you give them a warning as you give it. As I have said gas and Plumbing knowledge is available all over the place if you want it. The problem is its usually dear to buy.

I am one of those Plumbers who feel that if you tell people the proper way to do things and they take no notice, they are free to do so, but possibly foolish not to check it out.

Anyway most DIYers and cowboys go ahead and do jobs anyway, regardless of what anybody says. The only way you would perhaps stop them, is stop selling parts and tools to them and let the appliance manufacturers install and repair everything.

But of course we would all be on the dole.

 

[newbie1]

Well i have to say i totally disagree 100% with you bernie i believe that under no circumstances should anyone be giving a diyer info on gas appliances as this will inevitably lead to them having a go themselves and its no defence to say i told them not to do it when they kill someone

I think its an insult to say someone can go and become a gas fitter in 3-6 weeks as at that point they are neither safe or competent unless they have been working with a gas fitter non stop previous to that

Are you a gas engineer bernie because i for the life of me cannot fathom out why you think it is wise to give diyers info on how to carry out gas work and to what end
nobody no matter how good they think they are should be doing any gas work and i mean any without having the training and experience gained with working with a qualified engineer

i am of the opinion that we should have a change to the forum rules about handing out info on gas problems..anyone posting about a problem should display their gas safe no to confirm their competence to hand out or ask for info
If someone has a problem with their boiler/fire gas appliance then unless the enquiry is generic then telling people how to work on an appliance is reckless and sooner or later someone is going to do work and cause a problem and the investigation could come back to (i was given the information on uk plumbers forum by joe bloggs and he said as long as i am competent could do it but the problem is competency like it or not is only proved by gaining your acs qualifications)

I think its good to help people and as far as i know no one has ever killed someone by drowning them due plumbing work but gas is different it can kill and so can diyers and illegal fitters so telling them how to do things is to my mind irresponsible

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Newbie! People have been doing DIY gas work for years and they have never been stopped, just like the cowboys who do it for money.

So we either try the best we can to ensure they are safe as possible doing it or we ignore them and retreat into our wizard like den.

I have never heard of anybody getting reprimanded by anybody for giving safety advice on the internet and do not think I ever will.

Incidentally the same applies to gas boiler installation and repair, combi system pipework which technically is classed as unvented and unvented systems themselves.

That leaves little else to talk about on the forum regarding central heating and gas work.

Also one wonders why manufacturers give the same sort of advice I would give?

The answer is simple, the law demands they do, and a copy of all instructions be left with the householder. The whole object of GaSafe is what it says in its title.

Now unless the DIYer cannot read and none of his or her mates can, they already have the information to work on appliances in more depth than I could give them.

All I am doing is reinforcing information that they probably already have access to.

So how do you get around that?

Incidentally nobody on the forum really knows who is a DIYer and who is not, for all I know you may know nothing about Plumbing or Gas fitting.

No reflection on you of course, its just the way the internet works and the personal anonymity it gives.

Also I do not think it would be a good idea for anybody to put their GaSafe number up, simply because, it could be copied and turn up all over the place.

However if you think the info I try to give is wrong, then check it out for yourself, just as a DIYer should.

The idea that anybody would take it as read, anything they read on the internet without verifying it from other sources seems to be well out of date.

The forum is a place to talk about anything relating to the trade, not to act as a censorship machine.

And why would GaSafe engineers require information, shouldn't they already know?

The answer is of course, technology moves so quick now days we need updating whenever a new boiler is put on the market, not every five years.

So we need information as much as a DIYer does, so does that mean we are DIYers?

Of course it doesn't, it just means we are ignorant of the new models like the DIYer is of the drop test procedures probably.

Share what you know is perhaps a good motto.

 

[migoplumber]

most diy'ers are pretty obvious (as per op) and i for one give them the advice they need, as per 2nd post on thread.
and sure if someone wants to fiddle with gas then the information is freely available on net if you look for it.
i used to think help them, but changed my opinion and decided its best that they blow them selves up or kill their family by co poisoning (change of mind by viewing continuous diyers work) at least that way it will get in the news and maybe a change in the law will be made
my views only - not representing that of the forum