How much for your Plumbing non employed 6129 Technical Certificate?

[fuzzy]

Hello all,

I'm looking into how much it costs for a full time qualification. if everybody who has done this course could feedback to us all how much it cost and what they got for it. For example was it the 6129 level 2 only, was it home study and practical assessments or was it full years teaching please.

Example

Qualification = 6129
Mode of study = Home study plus week long practical assessments
Time = 6 months to completion
Achieved = Yes
Cost = £2,000
Add ons for assessment = £500
Total = £2,500


Im sure this info would help anyone looking to do a similar course, thanks :teeth_smile:

 

[gavinwilson]

6129 lvl 2
college 3 nights a week
12 months to complete
yes i passed
cost=950

 

[fuzzy]

thanks gavinwilson, i hoped more would be willing to say how much they paid

 

[mountainman]

Perhaps not many have followed this route.

 

[fuzzy]

Perhaps not many have followed this route.

oh a lot have mate, many in fact just look on here and the amount of training centres and colleges who have run this course, about around 70,000 have comepleted a tech cert in the last decade

 

[Kyle87]

the costing all depends on your status when it comes to college. im currently on the 6129 2 nights a week over 18 months

there is governement funding envolved but i lost out on some because this isnt technically my first level 2 and i work full time

some lads on my course blagged it by saying they were unemployed and got it cheaper (cheating gits!!)

mine cost £2200

 

[fuzzy]

the costing all depends on your status when it comes to college. im currently on the 6129 2 nights a week over 18 months

there is governement funding envolved but i lost out on some because this isnt technically my first level 2 and i work full time

some lads on my course blagged it by saying they were unemployed and got it cheaper (cheating gits!!)

mine cost £2200

thanks, i know that the funding differs and private centres charge different amounts, hence my question

 

[Kyle87]

the really annoying thing is those ''unemployed'' people who get everything at half the cost. annoys the hell out of me. i paid so much more because im an honest proud lad. i guess in this world it doesnt pay to be honest!!

 

[fuzzy]

the really annoying thing is those ''unemployed'' people who get everything at half the cost. annoys the hell out of me. i paid so much more because im an honest proud lad. i guess in this world it doesnt pay to be honest!!

the paperwork does get cheked at enrolment so i dont know how they got through??? im surprised if they did, i suspect they are bluffing. and you dont have to be employed to get the course paid, you need to be in receipt of benefits, which of course is different

 

[DJackson]

Qualification = 6129
Mode of study = College based, theory and practical classes. All work was done at college no need to home study.
Time = School year - September til June/July. I was pretty good at it and completed it about 6 weeks before the end of the due date. It was a full-time course 3 days a week 9 till 4.
Achieved = Yes
Cost = Free - If i remember correctly i got from not having a full level 2 qualification.
Add ons for assessment = n/a
Total = n/a

Additional Information = I was 19 at the time (im now 24) but i only found employment as a plumber when i was 21. I have since gone on to do my level 3 and got my unvented hot water ticket. I found the level 2 course pretty easy as alot of the students were fresh out of school (16 years old) and didnt really care for learning. It taught me the basics but i never really learned anything till i start working on site with another plumber who had been in the game for 30+ years.

 

[JCplumb]

6129 level 2 started about 10 years ago
Took 2 years to complete doing monday and tuesday nights after a 9-5 in an office from 5:30 - 9 or later, as well as a few weeks full time for practical assessments - which pretty much meant that for 2 years I had no Mondays or Tuesdays or holidays.
NVQ was done in the last year with help from a friend who was qualified/certed (whatever) to pass my work - including some visits from the head of construction and one visit from an NVQ assessor who was a thoroughly nice chap.
Total cost to me was about £1200, I was partly funded due to being on working family tax credit.
Gained experience over the term of the NVQ and doing jobs for friends and colleagues - I had plenty of jobs for colleagues as I worked in a building with 1500 employees.
Until I went self employed I just used to charge a tool for any work I did. i.e. outside tap - the charge would be a 19mm SDS drill bit. The first radiator I re-sited cost a pipe bender, the first bathroom I replaced cost a very nice Dewalt drill which is still the pride of my toolbox etc..
And I totally agree with the previous poster who mentioned dole-ites on the course who were only there to keep their benefits rolling along...

 

[PlumbersMate]

6129 Tech Cert,
2 school years 2 nights a week at college.
Cost would have £2500 but got funding due to fact I had less than 5 GCSE grades A-C (DONT KNOW WHY OR HOW THAT WORKS, DIDNT ASK FOR FUNDING THEY JUST OFFERED! LOL)
Finished my course early so started NVQ early which took around 6 months but was mostly due to me not being in a rush at first to get assessed, completed most of NVQ in last two months of it, very easily done if you get stuck in to your write ups and hassle your assessor to come and see you. Thankfully my assessor was very nice chap as was the qualified person I was working with, had no problem letting me take an hour out of my day for assessments etc, even though days were mega busy

 

[retterj]

Hello all,

I'm looking into how much it costs for a full time qualification. if everybody who has done this course could feedback to us all how much it cost and what they got for it. For example was it the 6129 level 2 only, was it home study and practical assessments or was it full years teaching please.

Example

Qualification = 6129
Mode of study = Home study plus week long practical assessments
Time = 6 months to completion
Achieved = Yes
Cost = £2,000
Add ons for assessment = £500
Total = £2,500


Im sure this info would help anyone looking to do a similar course, thanks :teeth_smile:

Hello, I wish I had checked this forum before signing up for Train 4 Trade Skills. Home study so you can work at your own pace, which is good. 11 weeks practical placements which isnt ideal if you work full time like myself. The cost £5700...£135 a month over a 42 month period!!!

Jason

 

[leepoll]

I paid £1700 at my local college for 6129 2 evenings per week. I think it is free if your unemployed, but when I was made redundent which was half way through my course and me paying it all myself, the dole said I would lose my benefit if I continued on the course as I was limiting availability to work. Needless to say I told them where to get of and continued. Oh and paid £1300 for the NVQ 2.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

oh a lot have mate, many in fact just look on here and the amount of training centres and colleges who have run this course, about around 70,000 have comepleted a tech cert in the last decade

This estimate is on the low side.

Although City & Guilds have kept the number of people who have done technical certificates a secret for obvious reasons (so we don't know what the competition is within our industry), they did publish a figure in the trade press a few years ago. The number published for 2008 was 48,000 in one year, which may have included around 7,000 apprentices doing NVQs. For the previous year 2007, I think APHC said there was an over-supply with 26,000 doing technical certificates APHC - News

Given that gas safe numbers are increased by nearly 7,000 last year, there is no evidence that the numbers are falling significantly within the plumbing and gas industry. Numbers are increasing.

There are probably between 25,000 - 50,000 per year doing tech-certs (all awarding bodies), with a diminishing number of apprentices doing NVQs.

The summitskills 'sector qualification strategy' (2010) stated around 3000 plumbers a year were required, which includes gas - again we can see how little attention has been paid to these issues of over-supply.

 

[fuzzy]

hi clanger,

im glad you pointed out all awarding bodies as its not just C&G

It obvious to most there has been many people doing quals that cannot get into the industry but the counter argument is, is it morally correct to refuse somebody education/training in a trade if they want it and realise the difficulty in getting employment and upgrading to the nvq?

my view is nobody should be denied, although they should know the facts. it is their money, their decision and there issue if they dont get employment. If they know these facts and still want to chance it then fine

 

[fuzzy]

in addition and this is to everyone

if there had not been so many do the tech certs would we have a problem with it? i guess not, therefore why should the qual be blamed? IMO there is nothing wrong with the quals, many other factors led to many wanting these courses and although many of these are not easily addressed we shouldnt look for an indirect way of tackling the issue.

 

[TomLane]

What are you saying the issue is exactly?

Your original question was who on here has completed the 6129!?!

In your opinion (which we are all entitled to our own, be them wide & varied) are you questioning the credibility of the course?

Whilst others on here may have many many years of experience, be it on housing development sites, domestic call outs or even commercial. There are others like myself who have gone down the route of the 6129. I did it as the career I had chosen previously, had sadly not been successful for me so wanted to learn a trade as I consider myself to be a "practical" skills person. I was too old to be able to do an apprenticeship so I chose the 6129.

It worked perfectly for me. 6 weeks, 5 days a weeks, 8-5 for £2000+ which came out of my own pocket.

I am currently self employed, in my 3rd year of business & have never looked back. It was one of the best decisions I made! It's been tough at times but ultimately I am 100% happy with my final career choice!

I say as long as people are willing to put the effort in & not just expect a jolly, then good luck to them. We need to get people back working somehow, as in the long run it will benefit us all. This generation & the next!

 

[chris watkins]

in addition and this is to everyone

if there had not been so many do the tech certs would we have a problem with it? i guess not, therefore why should the qual be blamed? IMO there is nothing wrong with the quals, many other factors led to many wanting these courses and although many of these are not easily addressed we shouldnt look for an indirect way of tackling the issue.

No you are absolute right fuzzy we should not be looking for an indirect way, it should be the most direct way & that is to say NO I am sorry but you can not be a plumber !!!! The simple truth is that not everybody that wants to be a plumber can be one (no matter how much money or time they are willing to invest). Market forces can't be relied upon as can be seen from the present situation & somebody out there better start telling 'em quick before there is no industry left out there, just marauding hoard of part trained people claiming to be a plumber because a piece of paper say so!!!!!!

 

[chris watkins]

Well done Tom, I am glad for you & indeed all those people who like you have made a susses in this great industry but you must see that this situation can not continue if it does you will have so little work that all that investment in time & money will have been in vain. It is very difficult to be objective when you are on the inside looking out but I would ask you to reflect on your 3 years, how much have you learnt after your 6 week course ? How many mistake have been made ? How much learning has taken place at the customers expense ?

 

[TomLane]

Agree with you to a point, & whilst I understand that the subject at present we are talking about is plumbing, would you apply this same logic with all trades & professions?!?

Given the opportunity to do it all again, yes I would agree that an apprenticeship would have been my first choice, without doubt!!

I have been fortunate in that I have several good friends of mine who have helped me along the way massively! They followed the apprenticeship route & I look up to them with their vast experiences as my oracle!

 

[chris watkins]

Agree with you to a point, & whilst I understand that the subject at present we are talking about is plumbing, would you apply this same logic with all trades & professions?!?

Given the opportunity to do it all again, yes I would agree that an apprenticeship would have been my first choice, without doubt!!

I have been fortunate in that I have several good friends of mine who have helped me along the way massively! They followed the apprenticeship route & I look up to them with their vast experiences as my oracle!

Yes Tom I would use the same logic, do you know for all that I love the plumbing industry, a year or so ago, I had had enough & wanted a change so having alway like helping people & having a little money saved I decided I would fulfil a dream I had long held to be a doctor & work as a GP. So I presented myself at one of those London teaching hospitals & said I would work very very hard & try to minimise the mistakes I would make (I also said I needed to complete the training a bit quicker) & do you know what they told me? yes, thats right it began with F & ended in off.
I took the moral from this & decided that we can't all have everything that we want.
Now I would ague that the skill levels involved in both PROFESSIONS are comparable & take the same amount of time to master, I grant you that the responsibility that a doctor has may be a bit higher. The main point is that there has never been nor is there likely to be an over supply of them !!!!!

 

[TomLane]

Good point well made!

I guess that it is down to those in the trade to make their voices heard. Unfortunately, since reading this post & thinking about it further, the courses being run by company's will always have a bigger voice I feel. Money = influence.

 

[tamz]

Good point well made!

I guess that it is down to those in the trade to make their voices heard. Unfortunately, since reading this post & thinking about it further, the courses being run by company's will always have a bigger voice I feel. Money = influence.

You hit the nail square on the head there Tom. It is ALL about the money.

 

[fuzzy]

What are you saying the issue is exactly?

Your original question was who on here has completed the 6129!?!

In your opinion (which we are all entitled to our own, be them wide & varied) are you questioning the credibility of the course?

I say as long as people are willing to put the effort in & not just expect a jolly, then good luck to them. We need to get people back working somehow, as in the long run it will benefit us all. This generation & the next!

tom, the original question aimed to get a bigger insight into how many in the industry have come through this route to get the 'bigger' picture.
forgive me if im wrong but your reply seems to make the same assumptions that many have who undertake the 6129, they presume the industry are having a go at them and jump to the defensive.

At what point did i question the credibility of the course? on the contrary, its an excellent course, my issues is with its misrepresentation. the 6129 is a tech cert and makes you 'tech cert' qualified which is not an NVQ and therefore not the full qual. if you know that then fine, many on here did not realise that when they start the course. My point yet again revolves around people being informed, i have many posts on here that point that out

i think my opinion is perfectly clear, i differ to Chris Watkins who does make valid points and i respect them but i do agree with opportunities for everyone. i dont agree with shutting the door. i do however disagree with uninformed choices, i point out how much is involved in becoming a plumber, most people think there are short cuts and want to seek them, the route to fully qualified should not be watered down but the door should also not be shut.

i have heard the 'doctor' counter argument many times before and dont agree. if i had enough money and was willing to do the course and also had the prior skills i could do a doctors course same as somebody leaving school. Or maybe the point was the fact that many 6129s do their own work to get their NVQ which many dont agree with, me included, but a doctorate is not an NVQ so dont think the 2 things can be compared.

If the issue is 6 week courses, again my point is the centres who offer these are diminishing the quality, again that is NOT the fault of the qualification. The qualification is good and should be respected, if there are issues with centres they should be tackled but not by trying to discredit the qualification. In fact i was interested to hear how long these courses took in the end, just because they are advertised as 6 weeks how many actually complete in that time? i suspect very few and many posts on here suggest im right

So the same as training to be a doctor or any course, if a student is willing to pay, train, give up their time and meet the entrance requirements the door should never be shut. The important factor is make an informed choice.

 

[fuzzy]

You hit the nail square on the head there Tom. It is ALL about the money.

for me its all about education. the problem is money comes into everything. how many of us go out plumbing for the enjoyment?

 

[fuzzy]

Agree with you to a point, & whilst I understand that the subject at present we are talking about is plumbing, would you apply this same logic with all trades & professions?!?

Given the opportunity to do it all again, yes I would agree that an apprenticeship would have been my first choice, without doubt!!

I have been fortunate in that I have several good friends of mine who have helped me along the way massively! They followed the apprenticeship route & I look up to them with their vast experiences as my oracle!

if there was no tech cert 6129 (or the new 6035) you would be denied entrance to the industry. Do you think that would be fair of society?

 

[Deleted member 25704]

It obvious to most there has been many people doing quals that cannot get into the industry but the counter argument is, is it morally correct to refuse somebody education/training in a trade if they want it and realise the difficulty in getting employment and upgrading to the nvq?

my view is nobody should be denied, although they should know the facts. it is their money, their decision and there issue if they dont get employment. If they know these facts and still want to chance it then fine

Fuzzy, I agree that closed-shops, protectionism or stopping people coming into industry are questionable in our free market society. However, it has been pointed out that it is different for medicine, law, teaching, and other professions that rely on rigourous qualifications and registration for entry.

I wish to pick up 'knowing the facts' - and the situation of some people knowing more facts than others.

The credit crunch started with such a moral hazard as poor people took out loans, which the sellers knew, they would be unable to re-pay. The seller was party to 'facts' that the buyer was not. The product was sold, with the buyer ignorant of the risks involved.

If we now consider plumbing candidates or students wishing to do plumbing courses. They take advice from teachers, assessors and career advisors who have a vested interest in certain facts - like the 'fact' that qualification is fit for purpose.

However, how do we know the qualification is fit for purpose, and what does 'fit for purpose' mean.

In order to adress the above questions we would need multiple opinions about the qualification, and substantive 'evidence' of the 'knowledge' learned on the course, extending or underpinning competent performance of a candidate in an occupational field such as plumbing. In addition, we would need to observe the perfomance of candidates in the field to assess if their college learning was valuable to them, and if the candidate was indeed performing to competent standards as a consequence of the course.

The above evidence scenario is not easy to achieve and to my knowledge no such study has ever been produced to evaluate plumbing qualifications, so there is a lack of research in the field. Therefore, we don't really know whether the plumbing technical certificate is a good qualification or not, becuase we only have opinions to go off at the moment...and these opinions are most often voiced the most loudly from sector skills councils, awarding bodies and training centres selling qualifications.

To conclude, I don't doubt that people get on and do well in business after doing a tech cert...but I think these people are dynamic, hard working, tenacious, averse to risk, confident, capable and open to learning. I would argue that these people would have done equally well whatever their choice of career, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

All qualifications and education for that matter should be open to question. At moment I would be extremely cautious of accepting advice from anyone concerned with the plumbing industry, because the 'facts' are not available.

 

[fuzzy]

Fuzzy, I agree that closed-shops, protectionism or stopping people coming into industry are questionable in our free market society. Im glad you agree, all too often the product is used to fight the argument which is unfair
I wish to pick up 'knowing the facts' - and the situation of some people knowing more facts than others. Isnt this the fact across everything? It isnt the fault of the qualification
The credit crunch started with such a moral hazard as poor people took out loans, which the sellers knew, they would be unable to re-pay. The seller was party to 'facts' that the buyer was not. The product was sold, with the buyer ignorant of the risks involved again this isnt the fault of the product but the seller, many sales people have sold inappropriately in the past, this is not a plumbing issue let alone a qualification issue. its an issue with sales. Blaming the qual for bad salespeople is misleading

If we now consider plumbing candidates or students wishing to do plumbing courses. They take advice from teachers, assessors and career advisors who have a vested interest in certain facts - like the 'fact' that qualification is fit for purpose.say like going to a shop and asking the salesperson for advice? this is the case in every shop ive ever been too. we now have the internet to get further advice and feedback from such as this forum, then we can make an informed choice, something i keep promoting

However, how do we know the qualification is fit for purpose, and what does 'fit for purpose' mean Qualifications are written and produced by professionals, they are then moderated bu professionals from various areas of the trade. The qual id then checked by ofqual for fairness. there is a thorough procedure to go through. This doesnt mean it is going to be 100% but the system is about as close as possible.

In order to adress the above questions we would need multiple opinions about the qualification, and substantive 'evidence' of the 'knowledge' learned on the course, extending or underpinning competent performance of a candidate in an occupational field such as plumbing. this does happen In addition, we would need to observe the perfomance of candidates in the field to assess if their college learning was valuable to them, and if the candidate was indeed performing to competent standards as a consequence of the course in the case of a tech cert this happens, the nvq then judges the performance in the field. the student does not get the full qual until they prove competence in a real working environment

The above evidence scenario is not easy to achieve and to my knowledge no such study has ever been produced to evaluate plumbing qualifications, so there is a lack of research in the field. Therefore, we don't really know whether the plumbing technical certificate is a good qualification or not, becuase we only have opinions to go off at the moment...and these opinions are most often voiced the most loudly from sector skills councils, awarding bodies and training centres selling qualification employers are represented. feedback so far is the skills of people leaving with a 6129 are low compared to fully qualified tradespeople. this is seen as a negative but it shouldnt be, the 6129 does not claim to make them fully qualified and therefore it is unfair to judge them against a fully qualified plumber. they should be judged against other poeple who have completed a centre only basic knowledge qual. then the employers completes the training prior to assessment for the full qual, USA have a similar system and it is judged very well, not sure why we complain about it. i think its because people want a student to do 1 year in a college and come out with all the skills of an experienced plumber, that will never happen so i suggest the judgments in the UK are unfair

To conclude, I don't doubt that people get on and do well in business after doing a tech cert...but I think these people are dynamic, hard working, tenacious, averse to risk, confident, capable and open to learning. I would argue that these people would have done equally well whatever their choice of career, but they are the exception rather than the rule.Again this is not conclusive to plumbing, is it not that people in all walks of life do better when they are hard working and open to learning etc. etc.? does anyone really think there is a qual capable of ensuring a lazy unwilling person into a fully qualified hard working plumber? once again it is not the fault of the qual but the person you are judging here

All qualifications and education for that matter should be open to question. At moment I would be extremely cautious of accepting advice from anyone concerned with the plumbing industry, because the 'facts' are not available.the facts are avilable, contact C&Gs direct if you have any questions, research on-line, talk to colleges and centres, then make up your own mind, like evey other walk of life this is no different

Replies in bold.

With all due respect to you clanger, you are obviously well educated with a good idea of education and how it works but i feel your reply casts a dark shadow over the quals and trade which is unfair.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Fuzzy

It wasn't my intention to 'cast a dark shadow', but to question some issues that exist in our industry with regard to plumbing qualifications, and especially the 6129 technical certificate in plumbing.

Perhaps we could try one of your suggestions - please phone City and Guilds, ask them to disclose the number of successful candidates doing 6129 technical certificates, for each year since 2007 and let us know.

I also appreciate that Fuzzy at least replies to my posts, so thanks for this.

 

[fuzzy]

Fuzzy

It wasn't my intention to 'cast a dark shadow', but to question some issues that exist in our industry with regard to plumbing qualifications, and especially the 6129 technical certificate in plumbing.

Perhaps we could try one of your suggestions - please phone City and Guilds, ask them to disclose the number of successful candidates doing 6129 technical certificates, for each year since 2007 and let us know.

I also appreciate that Fuzzy at least replies to my posts, so thanks for this.

your welcome.

for me it does not matter how many have done the qual really, if 1000 people have done it and got what they wanted from it then IMO thats good. We shouldnt presume that everyone taking a qual will want to become directly employed, they may have had other reasons to train such as enjoying learning, wanting to do some DIY etc etc. That will affect the judgements made when considering how many people have completed this qual

 

[chris watkins]

Why are we still going on about the 6129 Tec Cert whether or not it was good bad or indifferent doesn't really matter any more its an old qualification & has had its day, been replaced to suit the advances in the industry (lead has finally gone !, shame but there u r, more important things) The real important thing is what is replacing it which is the 6189 which is an NVQ only, one industry standard qualification which unless you have access to complete on-site assessment you can't get it, simples!!!! O but NO what is happening under the utmost pressure from colleges & some training providers the Tec Cert is being re-born as the 6035 so here we go again, colleges taking youngsters on to course with not realistic chance of getting a job. More unscrupulous training providers charging 10K for a way into the industry with the legitimisey of a C&G qualification that mirrors the NVQ ------ "normal service is resumed"
& I still haven't got any work that pays.

 

[fuzzy]

we could say 6129 or 6035 or tech cert, the points raised are valid regardless as they refer to full time courses.

Either full time course can lead to the full NVQ (currently 6189) so the training is not wasted if the desire to continue through to the full qualification.

Much of training and education doesnt lead to a direct job, how many subjects to people take at school that dont lead to jobs, i did well in geography and history but didnt get a job in those areas, are we to say that unless it leads to a direct job it should not be allowed?

 

[chris watkins]

your welcome.

for me it does not matter how many have done the qual really, if 1000 people have done it and got what they wanted from it then IMO thats good. We shouldnt presume that everyone taking a qual will want to become directly employed, they may have had other reasons to train such as enjoying learning, wanting to do some DIY etc etc. That will affect the judgements made when considering how many people have completed this qual

Oh I am sorry Fuzzy but get real!!, the number of people who thought, I no I will go & pay lots of money & do a plumbing course because they wanted to improve there DIY skills or because they love learning so much, you could not fill the fingers on one hand.
They do them for one reason & one reason only!!!

 

[fuzzy]

Oh I am sorry Fuzzy but get real!!, the number of people who thought, I no I will go & pay lots of money & do a plumbing course because they wanted to improve there DIY skills or because they love learning so much, you could not fill the fingers on one hand.
They do them for one reason & one reason only!!!

in the majority of cases you are right, however if they are willing to do the course and know the realities they are making an informed choice, why should people be denied this choice?

 

[Deleted member 25704]

I think there is an argument for higher education, in that doing a degree in History, Philosophy or the Arts has intrinsic value or 'learning for its own sake' is an accepted pursuit.

However, 'vocational education and training' offers a different proposition.

If we take the word vocational as meaning a career choice, then there is the implicit assumption that vocational education leads to a job in a particular field such as medicine or plumbing.

I would strongly argue that there are now few instances of adults doing plumbing courses for their own sake, compared to those doing courses with some intention of doing the job.

If we now introduce the government rhetoric of 'skills training' and providing people with the skills employers want, there is an explicit implication that the courses lead into industry or provide the first steps in a process.

The consequences of the 'over-ambitious' claims by training providers and government, is that people are now 'brain-washed' into thinking they need a course to become something - all part of the marketisation of education and training.

Courses are sold and people are left with debt, no job and the frustration of looking for work in field that is 'probably' over-supplied, but we don't know the numbers. In addition, people lose confidence in their knowledge, because they have not practised it yet, and probably just give up. Or tech-cert students are faced to 'set-up' and incurr more cost when going self-employed - which benefits the wider economy because self employed people generate business (at their own expense).

Numbers are massively important, thats why they are kept secret. I don't think many would be shelling out £thousands for courses or chosing a career in plumbing if they knew there was little chance of finding a job. I can't believe the 48,000 who turned up for a tech-cert in 2008 were doing it because they loved the subject and wanted to learn it for its own sake.

 

[fuzzy]

I think there is an argument for higher education, in that doing a degree in History, Philosophy or the Arts has intrinsic value or 'learning for its own sake' is an accepted pursuit. HE and secondary yes

However, 'vocational education and training' offers a different proposition. agreed but its not totally exclusive to this concept

If we take the word vocational as meaning a career choice, then there is the implicit assumption that vocational education leads to a job in a particular field such as medicine or plumbing. Yes i agree in the majority of cases but again it shouldnt be totally exclusive or considered as such

I would strongly argue that there are now few instances of adults doing plumbing courses for their own sake, compared to those doing courses with some intention of doing the job. I agree

If we now introduce the government rhetoric of 'skills training' and providing people with the skills employers want, there is an explicit implication that the courses lead into industry or provide the first steps in a process. Agreed, and I think plumbing quals fit into this just fine

The consequences of the 'over-ambitious' claims by training providers and government, is that people are now 'brain-washed' into thinking they need a course to become something - all part of the marketisation of education and training Not usre brain washed but yes this can be one view, this is were my persistent message of informed judgments and knowing the facts comes in

Courses are sold and people are left with debt, no job and the frustration of looking for work in field that is 'probably' over-supplied, i presume this is the case, and it is said repeatably on here time after time, again this is not the fault of the qualification, it is the fault of the seller misleading and the buyer not doing their research. but we don't know the numbers.
In addition, people lose confidence in their knowledge, because they have not practised it yet, and probably just give up Its no different than many courses, I feel that plumbing gets bad press with this, what about all the other courses that do the same? How many people with ONC's, HNC's H&S quals etc etc go into that direct line of work? I know several people who have completed the 6129 who have got jobs on the back of it but not as a plumber, one is now a caretaker in a school, one got a job as a joinery apprentice because the successful course was proof of applying oneself, there will be numerous success stories like this but they are difficult to measure
Or tech-cert students are faced to 'set-up' and incurr more cost when going self-employed - which benefits the wider economy because self employed people generate business (at their own expense) The tech cert is not designed to make somebody a plumber so they shouldnt really go self employed as a 'fully qualified' plumber, nothing wrong though with basic works if they work within their own ability

Numbers are massively important, thats why they are kept secret. I don't think many would be shelling out £thousands for courses or chosing a career in plumbing if they knew there was little chance of finding a jobt Are you sure clanger? just read many posts on here, how many say they realise its not going to be easy and the money isnt going to be all that and still pay to do it because its what they want
I can't believe the 48,000 who turned up for a tech-cert in 2008 were doing it because they loved the subject and wanted to learn it for its own sake True, but we know and understand much more now so no reason to refuse training for people, we also cannot alter what went on before. We shouldnt stop people training now because many trained numerous years ago. They should be given the opportunity

replies in bold above

 

[Deleted member 25704]

I could be misguided or wrong on what I have written, I never rule this out.

 

[fuzzy]

I could be misguided or wrong on what I have written, I never rule this out.

nor me clanger, tis only my view, i like to think its based on a good understanding of the issues but only my view all the same

 

[fuzzy]

would also be nice to have some other views to your points Clanger

 

[chris watkins]

I could be misguided or wrong on what I have written, I never rule this out.

nor me clanger, tis only my view, i like to think its based on a good understanding of the issues but only my view all the same

Is this how you two girls call a truce then ?? It is nice that you can still kiss & make-up after such a hot debate.
PS Fuzzy, does my views not count on this one then ? LOL

 

[fuzzy]

Is this how you two girls call a truce then ?? It is nice that you can still kiss & make-up after such a hot debate.
PS Fuzzy, does my views not count on this one then ? LOL

ha, ha

of course they count, sorry for excluding you from the huddle lol

i suppose it is a kinda truce, or we both pig headed and wont budge so we cannot be bothered to push each other:biggrin5:

im happy to continue with this thread but i think me and clanger know and respect each others views, even if we dont agree entirely

 

[JCplumb]

OMG. Get a room!

 

[Mohammed786]

Hello everybody

I have completed my C&G 6129 Basic Plumbing Studies Level 2.

I have received the following certificates

The main certificate with all the exams
The final gola certificate
Then certificate which has got (APHC) on it

I am yet to receive another 11 certificates for each indiviudal exam example Central heating system (pipework only) etc....

Please reply back thank you

 

[Mohammed786]

Hello everybody

I have completed my C&G 6129 Basic Plumbing Studies Level 2.

I have received the following certificates

The main certificate with all the exams
The final gola certificate
Then certificate which has got (APHC) on it

((Am I yet to receive another 11 certificates for each indiviudal exam, example Central heating system (pipework only) etc....))

Please reply back thank you

 

[kay-jay]

Yes they are only to show completed modules and not really worth anything. Only the main qualifications certs are needed

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mohammed786]

Hello Kay-Jay

I am well aware that the are not worth anything. However my question is this. At some point within the next couple of months will I receive those 11 certificates because I have only received 3 certificate up to yet. I emailed the exam department in college and they said that they don't know. hope this helps

 

[kay-jay]

They should come through. Ask your college mates if they have theirs. If concerned contact awarding body.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mohammed786]

Cheers mate

 

[fuzzy]

Hello Kay-Jay

I am well aware that the are not worth anything. However my question is this. At some point within the next couple of months will I receive those 11 certificates because I have only received 3 certificate up to yet. I emailed the exam department in college and they said that they don't know. hope this helps

they are normally sent via he awarding body directly after successful completion of the online exam

the overall cert is what is claimed and the thing you really want. if you have that dont worry about the others, if you havnt then i would contact the college