Leaking Isolation valve

[Cazza]

Hi

Just had a new bathroom installed with a toilet bowl that reaches the back wall. Its has a bottom entry cold feed to the cistern.
The fitter put an isolation valve on the pipe work for this :-(, the copper pipe comes up from a plastic pipe push fit. See photo.
I did a tissue paper test and found a leak on this isolation valve before it was fitted. Pointed it out to the fitter and he took it off and put in PTFE tape on threads. He wouldn't take isolation valve off completely and replace with just pipe as he said he didn't have tool to remove pipe from push fit! Then he fitted the toilet.
Not being a plumber I did not know you could get a leak through the screw hole. But now I realise the leak was most likely from the screw hole as per photo below of water mark on plywood and it wasn't wet underneath nut but higher up on valve.
Fitter is (very) reluctantly coming back. I've asked him to change the valve in case its the screw hole. Took independant advice and was told new isolation valves can leak through screw hole and it should be changed.
I've not used toilet yet but has been flushed.
He will have to unscrew from wall/ floor and pull toilet forward to reach valve. This will disconnect waste pipe, will water go everywhere or only a little bit when it disconnects?
Also should I buy a more expensive isolation valve to give him to make sure it doesn't leak again? Any advice much appreciated.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Tbh sounds like the fitters problem also if you can’t access the valve what’s the point in it being there I’m guessing you have a back to wall toilet / pan ?

For £1.39 might be worth buying them and give him them

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/hep2o-10-28mm-hepkey-plus-set/5222j

 

[Cazza]

Tbh sounds like the fitters problem also if you can’t access the valve what’s the point in it being there I’m guessing you have a back to wall toilet / pan ?

For £1.39 might be worth buying them and give him them

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/hep2o-10-28mm-hepkey-plus-set/5222j

Hi
Thanks for your reply. Yes I agree what's the point it being there. Yes it is a back to wall pan. Also he used a swan neck pan connector for the waste which goes down into the floor . It barely pushes onto the ceramic mould (see below). Shouldn't he have used a flexible pan connector?, so when the toilet comes out it doesn't slip off the ceramic bit which isn't very deep ? The one in the attached picture needed to be longer which he got. But flexible would have been better I think?

 

[Cazza]

Hi
Thanks for your reply. Yes I agree what's the point it being there. Yes it is a back to wall pan. Also he used a swan neck pan connector for the waste which goes down into the floor . It barely pushes onto the ceramic mould (see below). Shouldn't he have used a flexible pan connector?, so when the toilet comes out it doesn't slip off the ceramic bit which isn't very deep ? The one in the attached picture needed to be longer which he got. But flexible would have been better I think?

Also it was very difficult for him to see if the pan connector was even on the mould! He had to look through the small holes for fixing the toilet seat. I'm worried he won't take off the toilet seat this time to check the pan has connected when he blindly pushes it back to the wall!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It looks the wrong connector in the floor he should of removed the connector and installed an elbow under the floor chances are he’s used a load of mastic that connector’s fine aslong as you do it properly eg put it on the pan and push it into the drain etc or a block of wood behind the swan neck so you can push back

 

[Cazza]

Also it was very difficult for him to see if the pan connector was even on the mould! He had to look through the small holes for fixing the toilet seat. I'm worried he won't take off the toilet seat this time to check the pan has connected when he blindly pushes it back to the wall!

Thanks for reply. The photo might be a bit deceptive, the floor waste pipe is an elbow, it was the original and goes from the floor along to a waste pipe to the right. He bought a longer swan to push right down into it and said with the rubber seal was a tight fit. Hope so, don't want any smells. He pushed it into the drain first and then tried to get it on the toilet pan before pushing it back a few more inches blindly. He had to cut some of the original plastic drain rim off so the neck of the swan would go down further

 

[fowlerboi]

Back to the wall pans with close coupled cisterns are stupid.

In my experience. The only way to use a flexi with a soil pipe in the floor is to have the soil pipe coming up right against the wall. This only just gives the flexi space to bend in the right radius and fit the pan. Personally I prefer using a fixed pan connector and a block of something behind so when you push the pan home it connects properly. I would then use a long flexible connector to connect the cistern. I would use an isolation valve purely because the toilet has to be serviced at some point in its lifetime. Looking through the toilet seat holes is common practice

Those isolation are renound for leaking, rarely from new though. I've had 2 leak from new, both times I've put it down to impacting the front of the screw by the spanner slipping or similar.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks for reply. The photo might be a bit deceptive, the floor waste pipe is an elbow, it was the original and goes from the floor along to a waste pipe to the right. He bought a longer swan to push right down into it and said with the rubber seal was a tight fit. Hope so, don't want any smells. He pushed it into the drain first and then tried to get it on the toilet pan before pushing it back a few more inches blindly. He had to cut some of the original plastic drain rim off so the neck of the swan would go down further

I believe it was a pan connector elbow I’m guess the old toilet went straight into that

If yes then yes the elbow is the wrong type and needs cutting out as there’s not much to seal on etc

 

[Cazza]

Back to the wall pans with close coupled cisterns are stupid.

In my experience. The only way to use a flexi with a soil pipe in the floor is to have the soil pipe coming up right against the wall. This only just gives the flexi space to bend in the right radius and fit the pan. Personally I prefer using a fixed pan connector and a block of something behind so when you push the pan home it connects properly. I would then use a long flexible connector to connect the cistern. I would use an isolation valve purely because the toilet has to be serviced at some point in its lifetime. Looking through the toilet seat holes is common practice

Those isolation are renound for leaking, rarely from new though. I've had 2 leak from new, both times I've put it down to impacting the front of the screw by the spanner slipping or similar.

Thank you for your reply.
Yes it is rare it would leak from screw hole but I suppose it can happen. I feel bad because at first the plumber refused to come back and only if there was an obvious leak on the kitchen ceiling. But the floorboards would absorb a slow leak rather than it run down the pipe because of how close the wood has been cut. The only thing is the isolation valve is not accessible so you can't use it anyway before moving the toilet and you can't see if its leaking.
Just seen online you can buy fixed pan connector with a screw in adjustable horizontal pole at the top to go against the wall, im not sure how a block of wood would stay in place, maybe it might. I might try and find something before he arrives. Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Normally glue / screw it to the wall

 

[Cazza]

Normally glue / screw it to the wall

Thanks

 

[Cazza]

I believe it was a pan connector elbow I’m guess the old toilet went straight into that

If yes then yes the elbow is the wrong type and needs cutting out as there’s not much to seal on etc

Hi Shaun,
Sorry, I missed this reply. Thanks for your thoughts.
Here is photo of old toilet and how it used to look, and with the toilet gone.
The old toilet looks to have the rubber seal of pan connector just showing at top. Then there was a rim cap over the old waste pipe. This waste pipe then bends under the floor over to the main down waste pipe boxed in over to the right.
My fitter took off the rim cap I guess and then cut the back of the waste pipe rim so the bulk of the new swan pipe can sit a bit lower. The Swan pipe had a rubber seal that he showed me went deep into the waste pipe.
Even if the rubber is a tight fit in the waste (elbow) pipe is that not good enough? Did it really need that cap bit?
The trouble is now they have put down the plywood floor (ready for vinyl) and newly tiled over the plywood it would be very difficult to get that elbow out of the down pipe.

 

[Cazza]

Hi Shaun,
Sorry, I missed this reply. Thanks for your thoughts.
Here is photo of old toilet and how it used to look, and with the toilet gone.
The old toilet looks to have the rubber seal of pan connector just showing at top. Then there was a rim cap over the old waste pipe. This waste pipe then bends under the floor over to the main down waste pipe boxed in over to the right.
My fitter took off the rim cap I guess and then cut the back of the waste pipe rim so the bulk of the new swan pipe can sit a bit lower. The Swan pipe had a rubber seal that he showed me went deep into the waste pipe.
Even if the rubber is a tight fit in the waste (elbow) pipe is that not good enough? Did it really need that cap bit?
The trouble is now they have put down the plywood floor (ready for vinyl) and newly tiled over the plywood it would be very difficult to get that elbow out of the down pipe.

Also I don't think he'll be able to get a bit of wood at the back for pushing pan connector on, as that cold feed pipe is in the way