MCS Accreditation

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi Everyone,

We have started this thread to give everyone an area to discuss MCS Certification and any issues or questions associated with it.

Easy MCS are the UK's leading MCS Specialists and we are happy to help and advise if anyone has any queries.

Many Thanks

 

[Toddyplumb]

I am doing QMS training next week , whats next (I already have my solar thermal)

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

I am doing QMS training next week , whats next (I already have my solar thermal)

HI There,

Not entirely sure what you mean? What QMS Training are you doing?

Thanks

 

[Toddyplumb]

The training is to make sure our QMS system will meet the requirements of MCS

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

The training is to make sure our QMS system will meet the requirements of MCS

Where are you doing this training and what does it cover?

 

[unguided1]

Unfortunately as a self employed person I cant afford to be MCS accredited also with me secretarial skills I could never run a QMS so I am still exploiting my loophole to its maximum.
I will also refuse to become MCS accredited until something is done about it as well Because as I see it the QMS is completely irrelevent when I look at some of the installs I am dealing with half the installers cant even get their unvented regulations right let alone read an installation manual

 

[ecowarm]

Must agree unguided1 lots of cowboys on the MCS list as far as I can tell, around here anyway.

 

[Wag]

Can anyone tell me if there are any alternative routes to getting an installation registered? I put in an (Ideal!) ASHP with Uponor underfloor heating at the back end of last year on a renovation but I am not registered with MCS. RHI was all a bit up in the air at the time, and the customer was made aware that MCS was a trial for self employed one man bands and that I was only considering getting registered, now he wants the installation registered and to be honest I cant be bothered. Already Gas Safe and Oftec . . . Yawn!

 

[Ivor Bates]

Unless things change dramatically I'm not sure whether I'll bother with MCS. Having already invested both time and money with Vaillant and Worcester on their solar courses, I have also attended MCS course with Worcester. On both of these companies websites as being accredited for nearly 5 years, heavilly promoted on both my websites. With the grand total of installations to date.....3 lol. Oh yes I'm also on the REAL assurance listing. Am I going to chuck anymore money and time at this? No. It seems to me that for the costs involved and the returns gained Joe public are not investing in this technology unless of course it is being subsidised by the Government, which mean us the the taxpayer is paying for it via the back door. It's very difficult to convince people to invest in being green and energy efficient when fuel bills are rocketing and were in the middle of a recession.

 

[eaton]

Got my heat pump & solar thermal assessment booked for the 20 july

 

[stopcock]

The trouble with the MCS is it is for the 'Big Boys' and pen pushers!! I have admin skills and my hubby has been in the business for 25 + years and we have great reputation. Suddenly we are being asked to create massive manuals to say what paperwork we have etc etc just to install some solar panels??? It's becoming a mad world.

 

[markfxy]

Mad indeed when you consider all the effort you have to go to these manuals, maintenance schedules etc etc only for the customer to throw them in the bin once you've finished but you'll have to keep copies for years!!

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Unless things change dramatically I'm not sure whether I'll bother with MCS. Having already invested both time and money with Vaillant and Worcester on their solar courses, I have also attended MCS course with Worcester. On both of these companies websites as being accredited for nearly 5 years, heavilly promoted on both my websites. With the grand total of installations to date.....3 lol. Oh yes I'm also on the REAL assurance listing. Am I going to chuck anymore money and time at this? No. It seems to me that for the costs involved and the returns gained Joe public are not investing in this technology unless of course it is being subsidised by the Government, which mean us the the taxpayer is paying for it via the back door. It's very difficult to convince people to invest in being green and energy efficient when fuel bills are rocketing and were in the middle of a recession.

Thanks for this info. it answers many questions which I had not yet asked!

 

[eaton]

Right assessment is Wednesday and I'd like to add my estimate of costs to get this farTraining solar £450Training heat pumps £650Napit registration £750Real registration £220Books tr30 £40Easymcs qms £700Time off for training 6 days, Time spent on qms est 10 hours. So if I said £200 a day lost for time £1400 ish.Total est £4500

 

[fuzzy]

Unless things change dramatically I'm not sure whether I'll bother with MCS. Having already invested both time and money with Vaillant and Worcester on their solar courses.

just do the 2399, its all done in one course, saving you money in the long run

 

[SimonG]

just do the 2399, its all done in one course, saving you money in the long run

Does that encompass all the renewable technologies? Do you have a link for some reading material on it?

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Right assessment is Wednesday and I'd like to add my estimate of costs to get this farTraining solar £450Training heat pumps £650Napit registration £750Real registration £220Books tr30 £40Easymcs qms £700Time off for training 6 days, Time spent on qms est 10 hours. So if I said £200 a day lost for time £1400 ish.Total est £4500

Hi Eaton, can I check a couple of things with you, firstly did you already have experience with heat pumps if so and you can prove competence and understanding then you do not have to attend a training course. NIC EIC are charging as little as £350 for assessment top end £590 if you don't have any discount. Not sure why Napit are charging so much. How many employees do you have as REAL is £200 a year payable January to December you must have over 25 employees to be paying £750. The only external document you have to hold is the TR30 all others can be just access to depending on the certification body. And I think it may be the Worcester Bosch mcs made easy course you attended nit Easy MCS. An average installers who has experience in his chosen technology has only three fee's £495 to Easy mcs QMS management system (estimated five hours working time prior to assessment)£200 real£550 NIC EIC assessment.Total £1245I hope this helps with others looking to gain accreditation and trying to keep the cost down.

 

[eaton]

You've got costs muddled it's the way this site formatted, I'm a one man band check the figures again.

 

[eaton]

Right assessment is Wednesday and I'd like to add my estimate of costs to get this farTraining solar £450,Training heat pumps £650,Napit registration £750,Real registration £220,Books tr30 £40,Easymcs qms £700,Time off for training 6 days, Time spent on qms est 10 hours. So if I said £200 a day lost for time £1400 ish.Total est £4500

Tried to edit this so easier to read

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Tried to edit this so easier to read

Thanks Eaton I understand now, so to sum it up for a £3000 financial Investment + your time you will now be able to offer additional service through your company as a qualified and registered renewable engineer. Based on the fact that these prices I assume include VAT @ 20% and that you are VAT registered then your pay back period on £200 per day is 12.5 days. Your on going mcs certification will be around around £650 + vat so annual cost is around three days. I am sure you will find this a well worth while investment and thank you for using own service, do you know who your mentor has been at Easy MCS ?

 

[unguided1]

Hi EasyMCS you run those figures off like a well oiled politicians spin doctor unfortunatley you forget that as eaton is a oneman band these are not his only costs there are also the costs of any other bodies he is a member of, so why does the MCS have to exist as a body why cant there be just one body for heating engineers

 

[markfxy]

easyMCS you're assuming that once you've got MCS accreditation there's going to be an endless supply of work, seeing as the this incompetent government has ballsed up the RHI unless you are into solar PV its not worthwhile registering for MCS and I for one am peed off at having spent a lot of money on pointless training courses for renewables when there's very little work to be had because of a lack of promised incentives from a bunch of corrupt MP's who are too busy with their snouts in the trough that is solar PV.

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Hi EasyMCS you run those figures off like a well oiled politicians spin doctor unfortunatley you forget that as eaton is a oneman band these are not his only costs there are also the costs of any other bodies he is a member of, so why does the MCS have to exist as a body why cant there be just one body for heating engineers

Unguided1 I can assure you as the operations manager of easy mcs that I have not forgot the running costs of a one man band as I was one until January this year. I set up Easy mcs along side my own installation business which was me and an apprentice. And left to concentrate on easy mcs in January this year. Easy mcs was created with good intrusions to simplify the process of creating the mcs which in your own words is a barrier for installers but I have certainly spent my time in your position and I hope the service easy mcs offers is value for money. But I can assure you we don't wright the standards or advise on them we just take down a barrier that may prevent other installers gaining mcs.Easy mcs is only here to help where needed and I fully understand the costs involved in gaining mcs as I did it for myself prior to joining. I hope this shows that we are not just a faceless organisation and I would apprecite the chance to meet with yourself so you can see for yourself that I personally will assist fellow heating engineers in any way I can around gaining mcs be that in free seminars or discussing barriers to present to the certification bodies to develop a solution that not only conforms with the regulation but works for all involved. If you would like to take me up on a meeting please pm your details and I will contact you to discuss further.

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

easyMCS you're assuming that once you've got MCS accreditation there's going to be an endless supply of work, seeing as the this incompetent government has ballsed up the RHI unless you are into solar PV its not worthwhile registering for MCS and I for one am peed off at having spent a lot of money on pointless training courses for renewables when there's very little work to be had because of a lack of promised incentives from a bunch of corrupt MP's who are too busy with their snouts in the trough that is solar PV.

Mark, do you see any benefits to the RHI announcement ?It's the first heat production incentive of it's kind and the RHI premium payment set to come in this September is estimated to be worth around a years worth of the anticipated RHI payments. The only people to lose out on this is the heat pump manufactures who have concentrated on commercial air source. I would be interested to hear your thoughts as this questions comes up many times during our trainng days and mentoring service.

 

[markfxy]

I can see the benefits in it but forgive me for being skeptical but I have been waiting for years for it to come in! Yes there will be a premium payment this year but when is the RHI going to come into force and what are the figures it's not easy trying to sell renewables to somebody when you can't quote any figures to your customers. You say the only people to lose out are heat pump manufacturers but the way I see it the losers are those that have spent money on courses for solar thermal and heat pumps etc when if we'd spent our hard earned cash on a solar PV course we'd be quids in

 

[unguided1]

Unguided1 I can assure you as the operations manager of easy mcs that I have not forgot the running costs of a one man band as I was one until January this year. I set up Easy mcs along side my own installation business which was me and an apprentice. And left to concentrate on easy mcs in January this year. Easy mcs was created with good intrusions to simplify the process of creating the mcs which in your own words is a barrier for installers but I have certainly spent my time in your position and I hope the service easy mcs offers is value for money. But I can assure you we don't wright the standards or advise on them we just take down a barrier that may prevent other installers gaining mcs.Easy mcs is only here to help where needed and I fully understand the costs involved in gaining mcs as I did it for myself prior to joining. I hope this shows that we are not just a faceless organisation and I would apprecite the chance to meet with yourself so you can see for yourself that I personally will assist fellow heating engineers in any way I can around gaining mcs be that in free seminars or discussing barriers to present to the certification bodies to develop a solution that not only conforms with the regulation but works for all involved. If you would like to take me up on a meeting please pm your details and I will contact you to discuss further.

Hi EasyMCS
I would be more than willing to meet up, I am afraid as an Installer I am not as eloquant a campaigner as MickW and my reasons for refusing to join the MCS is physical cost, the rediculous QMS and the fact that it is further splintering our industry, and more importantly is the fact that it is my belief that customers are not being protected.
I appreciate the time you are offering in meeting me and I fully hope that you will not find it a waste of time.

 

[eaton]

Tried to edit this so easier to read

NoT sure to be honest, not really spoke in great length just had the qms sent and got on with it. Spoken to Simon (who without being rude seemed the most clued up) and last week Libby who was very helpful. Not sure what you mean by mentor feels like ive missed something now!! Will say would never of completed this without the qms. Afraid it's way above my business level. As I've said before I really like the enquiries, invoice, risk assessment, parts etc but the meetings etc for 1 man bands are ridiculous

 

[unguided1]

I would just like to say good luck with tomorrow Eaton I hope it all goes well for you, I can honestly say that I fully respect you for the trial you are going through and as a one man band you deserve to pass

 

[eaton]

right another 4 hours crossing is and dotting ts and I cant do anymore, so roll on tommorrow, really must try and get a life back after this, ill let you all know tommorrow, if im not back by friday, ive jumped off the bridge with the assessors throat in my hands

 

[CES]

Good luck for today mate. Let us know how it goes.

 

[eaton]

righty where do I start,

Was not expecting that, what a piece of ****, seriously never had an easier day, lovely bloke, went through my qms with a fine tooth comb, total time spent on paperwork and site visit 4 hours, rset of time spoke about work and campervans, in his own words " youve absolutely nailed this"

just need my certificate from REAL and im done. Must say the easymcs qms helped me walk it, honestly cant believe how easy it was.

 

[CES]

Well done mate, What was the site visit like? That's the bit that's holding me back.

 

[eaton]

took 5 mins looked at it and said "brilliant"

 

[CES]

Sounds like a good 'un then! I just need to get my finger out now.

 

[unguided1]

Well done Eaton congratulations on getting through

 

[eaton]

bloody hell does it stop,

just spoke to Real and if I take depsoits need a 3rd party client bank account so if I go bust they can get their money back, anyone else do this? if they charge me for a bank account think ill drop the deposit idea

 

[unguided1]

Lol just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water eh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[eaton]

you just wouldnt believe it would you!!!!

 

[unguided1]

LMAO I would, why do yer think I gave up and started stamping me feet like a red haired step child!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[unguided1]

Unguided1 I can assure you as the operations manager of easy mcs that I have not forgot the running costs of a one man band as I was one until January this year. I set up Easy mcs along side my own installation business which was me and an apprentice. And left to concentrate on easy mcs in January this year. Easy mcs was created with good intrusions to simplify the process of creating the mcs which in your own words is a barrier for installers but I have certainly spent my time in your position and I hope the service easy mcs offers is value for money. But I can assure you we don't wright the standards or advise on them we just take down a barrier that may prevent other installers gaining mcs.Easy mcs is only here to help where needed and I fully understand the costs involved in gaining mcs as I did it for myself prior to joining. I hope this shows that we are not just a faceless organisation and I would apprecite the chance to meet with yourself so you can see for yourself that I personally will assist fellow heating engineers in any way I can around gaining mcs be that in free seminars or discussing barriers to present to the certification bodies to develop a solution that not only conforms with the regulation but works for all involved. If you would like to take me up on a meeting please pm your details and I will contact you to discuss further.

Well I PMd me details but I aint heard owt yet, was it something I said??

 

[quality]

I suspect your statment is being considered or ignored

 

[unguided1]

I suspect your statment is being considered or ignored

I dunno but I was invited and I didnt think I had missed that many calls, cos If I miss em I try and call back

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

I dunno but I was invited and I didnt think I had missed that many calls, cos If I miss em I try and call back

Unguided1 I sent you and Mick Williams an e-mail and had further correspondence with Mick which you have been cc: in on. Please advise if you have not received as I would really value your opinion on the points I have raised to Mick on some of what I would suggest are fundamental issues with the campaign and how we can work together to simplify the QMS element without compromising the quality.

 

[unguided1]

Unguided1 I sent you and Mick Williams an e-mail and had further correspondence with Mick which you have been cc: in on. Please advise if you have not received as I would really value your opinion on the points I have raised to Mick on some of what I would suggest are fundamental issues with the campaign and how we can work together to simplify the QMS element without compromising the quality.

I will PM my email again to yer I definatley aint recieved one unless it went into, the junk mail which I never lookat and just delet cheers for the fast response.
Regards
Mike

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

bloody hell does it stop,

just spoke to Real and if I take depsoits need a 3rd party client bank account so if I go bust they can get their money back, anyone else do this? if they charge me for a bank account think ill drop the deposit idea

Eaton - As i understand it you can use the saving or bmm account which sits along side your normal business account saving you from having to open a new account. i have included a link which talks about how you can use the cover its a bit complicated but basically if you win a job and take a deposit or advanced payment you inform the insurance company and they will apply cover against that payment in the event of you closing your business during the project.

i hope this helps and congratulations on passing your assessment, can i ask which member of our training team worked with you?

https://www.real.qanw.co.uk/login.php

 

[eaton]

didnt really have one specific person, spoke to simon and last of all libby,

im with santander and they basically dont wany to know, bloke siad go and talk to hsbc or natwest which I have but ill need to move all business their way, currently have a business account and a reserve account, could I use the reserve account for deposits? real seemed certain i need it in a 3rd part client account, whats this insurance is it the one real offer for free once youve joined?

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

didnt really have one specific person, spoke to simon and last of all libby, im with santander and they basically dont wany to know, bloke siad go and talk to hsbc or natwest which I have but ill need to move all business their way, currently have a business account and a reserve account, could I use the reserve account for deposits? real seemed certain i need it in a 3rd part client account, whats this insurance is it the one real offer for free once youve joined?

Hi Eaton,As I understand it you can use the reserve account for compliance with Real but it's worth discussing it with the insurance side as they ultimately call the shots with regard to the cover for advanced payments / deposits. I am back in the office on Wedneday if you would like me to have a look into this for you? Regards Simon.

 

[eaton]

Thanks I'd appreciate that could save me having to move banks!!

 

[boblydon]

I to am looking down the route of MCS, this thread has been very helpful to see many different points of view, some of the posts I had never even thought about.Thanks too all who have contributed.Bob

 

[eaton]

Easymcs, any news regards bank accounts, my real certificate turned up earlier, just sent a copy to napit so should be ready to go