Nightmare time with Worcester Bosch repairs

[Cazza]

Hi

Was wandering if anyone can tell me if a competent boiler repair man should be able to detect a leak on an isolation valve to the boiler fairly easily. Worcester Bosch repair men came out 10 weeks ago to repair what was a leaking left flow unit. They also took boiler apart and replaced a few other things just in case that could leak (prv and expansion vessel). To cut a long story short I've had continuing pressure loss since they came out, one bar every 2 weeks. They kept telling me it couldn't be the boiler but I kept running isolation tests which proved to be the boiler. In all they've come out 7 times and 4 times there has been a leak on the left and right isolation valves. They tried tightening one, then replacing both washers, then replacing the right valve and now hopefully they are coming back to replace the left valve which still looks to be leaking.
Their attitude has been horrible, they are now unwilling to come out again they said if there is a continuing pressure loss after their visit today. I've had this worry for 10 weeks, had to run 4 isolation tests, had to take 8 days off work for their all day appointments getting up very early. I don't think I should have had to go through this. They kept telling me I had practically a new boiler so not to worry about the pressure drop. I think they should have ran some sort of isolation test on the second visit to determine where the leak was and properly diagnose it first (on the second visit they actually put in a new heat exchanger instead of finding the valve leak). Can any competent boiler repair man tell me what they think please?

 

[Rob Foster]

Hi

Was wandering if anyone can tell me if a competent boiler repair man should be able to detect a leak on an isolation valve to the boiler fairly easily. Worcester Bosch repair men came out 10 weeks ago to repair what was a leaking left flow unit. They also took boiler apart and replaced a few other things just in case that could leak (prv and expansion vessel). To cut a long story short I've had continuing pressure loss since they came out, one bar every 2 weeks. They kept telling me it couldn't be the boiler but I kept running isolation tests which proved to be the boiler. In all they've come out 7 times and 4 times there has been a leak on the left and right isolation valves. They tried tightening one, then replacing both washers, then replacing the right valve and now hopefully they are coming back to replace the left valve which still looks to be leaking.
Their attitude has been horrible, they are now unwilling to come out again they said if there is a continuing pressure loss after their visit today. I've had this worry for 10 weeks, had to run 4 isolation tests, had to take 8 days off work for their all day appointments getting up very early. I don't think I should have had to go through this. They kept telling me I had practically a new boiler so not to worry about the pressure drop. I think they should have ran some sort of isolation test on the second visit to determine where the leak was and properly diagnose it first (on the second visit they actually put in a new heat exchanger instead of finding the valve leak). Can any competent boiler repair man tell me what they think please?

I understand from my links in hvac land that WB have got problems. Their team is 300 strong but due to quality issues with their boilers in past few years the waiting time has increased dramatically and properly trained engineers are in short supply.

 

[oz-plumber]

If it were me and I was trying to prove a point, I would:

Isolate the boiler from the heating system.
Plug the PRV valve outlet with a 'plug'
Using a test bucket, pump the boiler up to a pressure of 3 bar, ( the boiler should be able to stand the pressure of the relief valve setting ) and have a look around for leaks.

That would be the only way to determine if the boiler has a leak.

 

[Cazza]

If it were me and I was trying to prove a point, I would:

Isolate the boiler from the heating system.
Plug the PRV valve outlet with a 'plug'
Using a test bucket, pump the boiler up to a pressure of 3 bar, ( the boiler should be able to stand the pressure of the relief valve setting ) and have a look around for leaks.

That would be the only way to determine if the boiler has a leak.

 

[Cazza]

Thanks for your replies.
I don't think they carry out diagnostic tests very well and just replace a load of things that are known to leak and call it a day. Yesterday they've put a large gauge on the radiator and one on the boiler. Pumped it up to 2 bar. They wanted to come back yesterday after only 3 hours, which I knew would show nothing. I insisted a later time. They're coming back this afternoon, both gauges have dropped about 0.15 of a bar that they are yet to see. The left isolation valve on boiler looks a little wet. Maybe their is also a small leak somewhere on underfloor pipes. But definitely also the boiler has leaked. I told them over the phone the boiler gauge has dropped. They've told me they won't come out to me again after today and coming to collect their things. Even though last week they promised if the gauge dropped on the boiler I need not worry it was their problem to get to the bottom of it. So they have gone back on their word, they said they won't charge me and that i'd have to use another engineer. I just hope they at least replace the left valve.

 

[Cazza]

Thanks for your replies.
I don't think they carry out diagnostic tests very well and just replace a load of things that are known to leak and call it a day. Yesterday they've put a large gauge on the radiator and one on the boiler. Pumped it up to 2 bar. They wanted to come back yesterday after only 3 hours, which I knew would show nothing. I insisted a later time. They're coming back this afternoon, both gauges have dropped about 0.15 of a bar that they are yet to see. The left isolation valve on boiler looks a little wet. Maybe their is also a small leak somewhere on underfloor pipes. But definitely also the boiler has leaked. I told them over the phone the boiler gauge has dropped. They've told me they won't come out to me again after today and coming to collect their things. Even though last week they promised if the gauge dropped on the boiler I need not worry it was their problem to get to the bottom of it. So they have gone back on their word, they said they won't charge me and that i'd have to use another engineer. I just hope they at least replace the left valve.

 

[Cazza]

I just looked at both boiler isolation valves and they both still looked wet on top. I did a tissue test and it was moist on both of them. Even though they'd changed the right valve yesterday. Could it just need tighening up or should they have used something else in the nut to stop it leaking?

 

[oz-plumber]

0.15 of a bar is too indecisive.

Do you have plastic piping or copper piping. Plastic expands to pressure and hence reduce pressure readings on gauges.

That amount of pressure drop could be the temperature of the water lowering also.

It could also be attributed to the bladder in the expansion tank adjusting to the set pressures.

The only way you are going to get to the bottom of it is to test the boiler separately and the heating system separately.

 

[Cazza]

Thanks for the information. I've got a mixture of plastic and copper pipes. Upstairs where the boiler is mostly plastic. The boiler/ heating had been cold over night before running the isolation test so not cooling down. I thought it strange the boiler and radiator gauges have both dropped at almost the same rate, they are being tested separated with the boiler isolated from the radiators (valves turned to horizontal). Unless the valves leak inside which would explain the same pressure drop.
There is definitely moisture on the boiler valves though, could these account for a 0.15 bar pressure drop?

 

[Millsy 82]

Have they isolated the boiler from the system? A 0.15 bar drop could just be a temperature drop.

Small leaks are notoriously tricky to locate as a lot of pipework and fittings are hidden in floors, walls and ceilings. The isolation valves under most boilers are a nightmare touch them at your peril. Can almost guarantee when you touch them they will start leaking.

Worcester are well known (especially round me) for just throwing parts at the boiler as the engineers get penalised for return calls I believe.

When you do an isolation test how long do you leave it? Do you make sure the water temperature is exactly the same both times? Breakdown engineers are usually very time limited and especially this time of year so they can't just sit there for 12 hours to test.

 

[Cazza]

Thanks. Yes they have isolated it from system. They have a large gauge on both one radiator and the boiler itself. The boiler/ heating was cold over night so no temperature drop.

I think this is whats happened. Instead of just replacing the leaking left flow unit they also replaced lots of other things too but needed to touch both isolation valves to take boiler apart. This has then resulted in them leaking ever since, which they've never spotted. I've picked the leaks up by doing my own isolation tests (3 times!).

They only wanted to run the isolation test for 3 hours yesterday. I asked them to come back today (at first they didn't want to come back until Monday but too cold to be without heating or hot water that long). So now the isolation test has ran for 26 hours.

I think its the left and right isolation valves leaking. Should I ask them to use thread seal on the valves? Would this help, as even the new valve looks to be leaking.

 

[Welder]

Thanks for your replies.

Cazza. You have to take a step back and look at this much more logically. The hand wringing frustration, although understandable, is not engaging people on your behalf.

Personally, I'd write to Martyn Bridges who is head of technical at WB. Keep the letter factual.

For example, 10 visits withOUT definitive understanding of whether root cause is boiler or pipework. Need more experienced/competent engineer by x date otherwise I shall be forced to engage my own 'expert' and send you the bill if it turns out it is a boiler fault.

Sorry to be so 'brutal', but stop messing about on here and get something moving with those who can effect positive change.

 

[Cazza]

Thanks for your thoughts but Worcester Bosch have already told me they won't help me no more and are refunding my money. I've got the Worcester guy turning up this afternoon and he is supposed to be replacing the left valve (i've been told) and then he is going to take his gauges and leave and they won't come back (great customer service hey! not). Ideally I don't want to have to organise and pay for another engineer to come out just to sort the valves out, which i'm sure is the only cause of leaks. As the right new valve they replaced yesterday is leaking I just wanted some advice on how they can sort that out whilst he is here this afternoon.

 

[Rob Foster]

Where abouts are you, when they all get in then something might gel
centralheatking

 

[Cazza]

Bristol