planning route for new CH system and advice on Hep2o pipes

[pana37]

Hi all new to this site

I'm planning on a New CH system with Combi-Boiler will all new Rads also this house currently has a warm air system which is being replaced.

1. I would like to run the pipes in Hep2o barrier i believe. idea is to drill holes into joists and feed 22mm pipes I have a long landing so will be the main run.

2. i was thinking of channeling in a few pipes on the ground floor walls to conceal the pipes, is this a good idea? what can i put in the channel to prevent any long term issues?

3. is it worth me buying a right angle drill to make holes? as will be making a few holes everywhere

look forward to your thoughts thanks

 

[Keefy]

Who's fitting the combi?

 

[AWheating]

hire a drill, stick to drill zones and hole spaces so you dont weaken your floor, follow the plastic's manufacturers instructions, pressure test the pipework, get a gas safe engineer to do all the gas work including the position and fixng of the boiler.

is your cold main suitable for a combi?

your warm air system could well contain asbestos, and any surrounding boxings so get it removed by a expert. Get advice from your gas safe engineer.

textured ceilings may also contain asbestos.

if it was me id do it all in copper, i only really think plastic is suitable on new builds tbh.

good luck.

 

[pana37]

Who's fitting the combi?

not myself will be a gas safe engineer, used him before at my old house

 

[pana37]

hire a drill, stick to drill zones and hole spaces so you dont weaken your floor, follow the plastic's manufacturers instructions, pressure test the pipework, get a gas safe engineer to do all the gas work including the position and fixng of the boiler.

is your cold main suitable for a combi?

your warm air system could well contain asbestos, and any surrounding boxings so get it removed by a expert. Get advice from your gas safe engineer.

textured ceilings may also contain asbestos.

if it was me id do it all in copper, i only really think plastic is suitable on new builds tbh.

good luck.

thanks for your reply
i was wondering about copper how would you run 22mm pipes in joists? I would have though notching out the joists would weaken them? thats why i like the idea of the Hep2o the have revamped them from old and have a new type of fitting which ensures the pipe is fully home.

the engineer came to check my pressure he says its fine for combi boiler

ill have to check about hiring one tbh i was going to do this in stages so may not be a good idea to hire

 

[happyflyer]

Hi all new to this site

I'm planning on a New CH system with Combi-Boiler will all new Rads also this house currently has a warm air system which is being replaced.

1. I would like to run the pipes in Hep2o barrier i believe. idea is to drill holes into joists and feed 22mm pipes I have a long landing so will be the main run.

2. i was thinking of channeling in a few pipes on the ground floor walls to conceal the pipes, is this a good idea? what can i put in the channel to prevent any long term issues?

3. is it worth me buying a right angle drill to make holes? as will be making a few holes everywhere

look forward to your thoughts thanks

Pana,

Plumbing is so easy these days, why some plumbers get it all wrong I will never know, push fit this, push fit that, a joiner can do it now, you see them at B&Q pondering in the bins, push fit bins, they never go near the flow solder bins, only for the proper plumbers, ask the assistant on the plumbing section he was a plumber in real life, be nice if you could go a pop your head in a new house under construction and see how its done, thrown in with panache and then plastered over, nothing straight or plumb, who cares anymore. Good luck with your plastic project, you will need to change to copper when you get close to the boiler and then you will have to stop, big boys time then, can you smell gas, yes I have just purge the gas up to the boiler, happy days.:behead:

 

[happyflyer]

hire a drill, stick to drill zones and hole spaces so you dont weaken your floor, follow the plastic's manufacturers instructions, pressure test the pipework, get a gas safe engineer to do all the gas work including the position and fixng of the boiler.

is your cold main suitable for a combi?

your warm air system could well contain asbestos, and any surrounding boxings so get it removed by a expert. Get advice from your gas safe engineer.

textured ceilings may also contain asbestos.

if it was me id do it all in copper, i only really think plastic is suitable on new builds tbh.

good luck.

Very good all round advice and a man who knows what is is doing, he would do it in copper 10/10

 

[pana37]

i didnt think id get this many replies to my post, i know you guys are pros and hate the cr*p plastic. for me its fine i think

i was wondering about copper how would you run 22mm pipes in joists? I would have thought notching out the joists wouldn't this weaken them? or what other method would you guys use? thanks once again

 

[happyflyer]

i didnt think id get this many replies to my post, i know you guys are pros and hate the cr*p plastic. for me its fine i think

i was wondering about copper how would you run 22mm pipes in joists? I would have thought notching out the joists wouldn't this weaken them? or what other method would you guys use? thanks once again

They will be tripping over the plastic tube to help you. If you use copper you will undoubtedly need to use some 22 mm somewhere, you can notch the joist, most old house have 7" to 9" joist, don't go daft, try to plan your 22 mm runs going with the joist, let the force be with obi wan kenobi, infinity and beyond, you will need to know a few facts about how much heat 22 mm and 15 mm will carry to pipe size, I think I can find you some info if you need it, it might be on parchment.

 

[Keefy]

you see them at B&Q pondering in the bins, push fit bins, they never go near the flow solder bins, only for the proper plumbers, ask the assistant on the plumbing section he was a plumber in real life

And beats customers up.

 

[AWheating]

us pros like plastic pipe, but it has its limits and is less suitable in some situations and more suitable in others. plastic can be fitted by somebody who has little plumbing knowledge but in my experience it only gets fitted correctly and to a decent standard by a good plumber.

as for sizing pipework you normally find plastic has less flow rates compared to copper. the best person to ask for advice is your engineer tbh.

you can notch your joists, how deep depends on the joist, same with drilling holes in the middle for plastic. both methods will weaken the joist.
have a read through the building regulations to make sure you dont do anything dangerous, if in doubt get a professional in.

 

[dancinplumba]

Plastic all the way man

 

[pana37]

thanks guys for your advice, i used the same method at the old house however i notched the joists out and the fittings where a lot more ***bersome. i consider myself to be a very competent 'diyer'

i have drawn up a route now so will hopefully work out, where i want to the run the main run unfortunately the joists are going across so still swaying towards plastic stuff.

 

[Keefy]

thanks guys for your advice, i used the same method at the old house however i notched the joists out and the fittings where a lot more ***bersome. i consider myself to be a very competent 'diyer'

i have drawn up a route now so will hopefully work out, where i want to the run the main run unfortunately the joists are going across so still swaying towards plastic stuff.

Hope it all goes well, keep updating this thread with your progress as it's always nice to see how a job progresses.

 

[pana37]

Thanks
any advice on channelling and pipes in the wall?

Also was thinking of getting some modern/designer rads for gnd floor and standard ones upstairs any recommendations on makes?

 

[Best]

Copper may actually work out similar price to plastic as you need less fittings with copper & end feed copper fittings are cheap & good quality. Remember each plastic joint end requires a support inside the pipe & you are supposed to clip plastic pipes fully. If you can solder & bend copper well, then it is the job. Forget the "50" year warranty with plastic - there's no such thing, - only a limited warranty. Think uv rays, all that heat - especially excessive heat if it occurs & rodents! Copper is faultless on heating. All that said, if you want to do the plastic stuff & do it carefully, it might be around for long enough. Just seems a shame to go to all that bother to carefully fit second best! Make sure you fit the pipes near the sides of rooms & not in the middle of floor.

I often recall builders telling me they use plastic on all their jobs, where hidden. Then they said they don't use it in their own homes though....!

 

[AWheating]

i agree clipping/support is very important with plastic every 300mm is recommended by most plastic manufacturer's and its important to avoid any strain on the fittings. the new hep2o is about the same size as the old style stuff. Id use polyplumb or speedfit if it was me.

radiator choice is down to your own likes tbh. Just get the heat outputs correct and fit whatever floats your boat.

running pipes in the walls will depend on the wall tbh, what are they made from?

 

[happyflyer]

Copper may actually work out similar price to plastic as you need less fittings with copper & end feed copper fittings are cheap & good quality. Remember each plastic joint end requires a support inside the pipe & you are supposed to clip plastic pipes fully. If you can solder & bend copper well, then it is the job. Forget the "50" year warranty with plastic - there's no such thing, - only a limited warranty. Think uv rays, all that heat - especially excessive heat if it occurs & rodents! Copper is faultless on heating. All that said, if you want to do the plastic stuff & do it carefully, it might be around for long enough. Just seems a shame to go to all that bother to carefully fit second best! Make sure you fit the pipes near the sides of rooms & not in the middle of floor.

I often recall builders telling me they use plastic on all their jobs, where hidden. Then they said they don't use it in their own homes though....!

I could't have put it better myself, now I know why your stage name is BEST, you saved me typing, you must be an old sod like me, nice one Best.


Tony

 

[pana37]

Copper may actually work out similar price to plastic as you need less fittings with copper & end feed copper fittings are cheap & good quality. Remember each plastic joint end requires a support inside the pipe & you are supposed to clip plastic pipes fully. If you can solder & bend copper well, then it is the job. Forget the "50" year warranty with plastic - there's no such thing, - only a limited warranty. Think uv rays, all that heat - especially excessive heat if it occurs & rodents! Copper is faultless on heating. All that said, if you want to do the plastic stuff & do it carefully, it might be around for long enough. Just seems a shame to go to all that bother to carefully fit second best! Make sure you fit the pipes near the sides of rooms & not in the middle of floor.

I often recall builders telling me they use plastic on all their jobs, where hidden. Then they said they don't use it in their own homes though....!

Soldering is not my strong point tried it before with flame and those things you clamp near the fittings, shame really. Also you mention go near the edge which I will do in some of the run, what's the reason behind this? Thanks again

 

[pana37]

i agree clipping/support is very important with plastic every 300mm is recommended by most plastic manufacturer's and its important to avoid any strain on the fittings. the new hep2o is about the same size as the old style stuff. Id use polyplumb or speedfit if it was me.

radiator choice is down to your own likes tbh. Just get the heat outputs correct and fit whatever floats your boat.

running pipes in the walls will depend on the wall tbh, what are they made from?

Its a 70's build house so solid breeze block I guess, it's not stud that's for sure.

 

[dancinplumba]

Plastic will use less fittings and is not second best, have it in my house, been there 25 years, just re done bathroom and re used all old fittings . plastic, no probs, just looks tat on show

 

[happyflyer]

Plastic will use less fittings and is not second best, have it in my house, been there 25 years, just re done bathroom and re used all old fittings . plastic, no probs, just looks tat on show

Hope you turn your water of when you go down the shops.... plastic is tat when on or off show, I still have a little pride even when I lift the floor boards and stand back and say I did that, or my kids say my dad did that when he was alive...:4:

 

[dancinplumba]

Hope you turn your water of when you go down the shops.... plastic is tat when on or off show, I still have a little pride even when I lift the floor boards and stand back and say I did that, or my kids say my dad did that when he was alive...:4:

Why ?

 

[dancinplumba]

Oh, I know, when you fit it it leaks

 

[dancinplumba]

When I lift the boards and see copper I think kerrching scrap

 

[TBServices]

Plastic is okay under floors I guess. I'd rather use copper, but plastic is easier.

Do yourself a favour, if you're drilling joists, hire an angle drill and make sure you drill your holes in line with each other, the same height and straight! This will make threading your pipes much easier. Also, plan your runs carefully.

Any radiators with dropped supplies, use lock shield valves with built in drainoff's.

You could even consider using a manifold system.

 

[Best]

I could't have put it better myself, now I know why your stage name is BEST, you saved me typing, you must be an old sod like me, nice one Best.


Tony

I am getting on a bit & wary of anything made of plastic must admit! When I look at plastic fittings that have had hot heating water in them for a few years, I worry. Looking recently at a 22mm stopend, on a few years I guess & had been on return pipe i removed close to a boiler & it looked like it was about to die - colour brown & inside it poor.

As to the name "Best" - it was just a name I had thought of in a couple of seconds, & it is easy to type! Always think it is nice to try your best though. :smile:

 

[Best]

Soldering is not my strong point tried it before with flame and those things you clamp near the fittings, shame really. Also you mention go near the edge which I will do in some of the run, what's the reason behind this? Thanks again

At least you know your limits. Only a mug would attempt to do a whole house in copper if he can't solder really well. A really good plumber would be able to do a professional job in copper probably for not a fortune & likely before you would barely start your plastic pipe install! See this very often - DIY "saves" himself £500 & buys a lot of expensive "cheap" materials & spends 3 weeks worrying about & doing a job a pro will do properly in 3 days!
Copper notched into joists are better not in middle of room because it weakens joists more there & it is easier to roll back a carpet at the side of room (where you enter the room) a couple of feet to accesss them if you ever had to. Landings & halls can be a nuisance to access pipes if carpets fitted, as carpet will be hard to lift there often, plus you disturb the main thoroughfare & there tends to be a lot of wiring there.
If you do use plastic it will require care & some skill also though.
Use a chalk line (if you havent a straight line to work to) to mark a dead straight line on top of joists & use a level to mark plumb lines down. Then mark centre of holes exact distance down you require.

 

[happyflyer]

Use a chalk line (if you haven't a straight line to work to) to mark a dead straight line on top of joists & use a level to mark plumb lines down. Then mark centre of holes exact distance down you require.

Best you are simply the best, chalk line most plumbers have never seen one, the nearest brick with some plumbers will do and plastic tube will move to the nearest brick when it gets warm.

Best I asked a question on a thread yesterday, when was the first plastic tube used for heating minibore? and no one answered, do you know, I do I will let it bubble a bit before I tell you.

Tony

 

[dancinplumba]

Bubble away

 

[happyflyer]

Bubble away

Wilco....:juggle:

 

[on31ll]

You really do hate platic dont you happy flyer ! I dont understand why ! People mis use it and it fails ! FACT ! If you mis use copper it fails ! People moan about plastic but it works and does a very good job ! May be a different plastic but all ne water mains are plastic ! And there fine. You cant exactly use copper on the collector for GSHP.

 

[pana37]

now you guys have a lot of negative feedback on plastic.
Im confident on routing / running pipes rads etc. would be nice if I could learn on how to solder. I'll have to look if I could a crash course in plumbing soldering or something.

 

[happyflyer]

You really do hate platic dont you happy flyer ! I dont understand why ! People mis use it and it fails ! FACT ! If you mis use copper it fails ! People moan about plastic but it works and does a very good job ! May be a different plastic but all ne water mains are plastic ! And there fine. You cant exactly use copper on the collector for GSHP.

On31

It's simple, you don't need to be a plumber to fit plastic, you don't need to a plumber to fit copper but it does help and you are right GSHP is a plastic derivative which in the main lends itself to plastic, I don't like to see it being used when you have a choice, BTW I am not on my own about only using copper there are others, copper does look nice when it's installed right, plastic is best hidden under the floor of behind a cupboard door it can never be made to look good, or am I wrong and the jobs I have seen have been plumbers from hell and it really can be made to look good, post some photos of work you have done in plastic, BTW anyone one else who has some bespoke plastic works, I will not be holding my breath.

Tony

 

[dancinplumba]

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