Radiator banging / clicking - possible reaction to F1 protector?

[TheGiantHogweed]

Open the black arrowed valve 90 deg anti clockwise and increase whatever pressure its showing now by 0.3 bar but no more, reclose valve.

Flow pipe on boiler seems correct.
Will revert later re pump.

I've changed the pump mode / speed to CP1.

I just need to fully understand that valve does, and make sure that it isn't easily possible to go wrong in a way that matters in the long term. As usually, I don't do any of this stuff myself.

 

[John.g]

You cant go wrong, that valve allows mains water into the system/E.vessel and even if you forgot to close it the red topped safety (PRV) valve on the boiler top will open at 3 bar.
So just open it slowly, you should hear water passing through it and the pressure gauge should start rising slowly, reclose the valve when the pressure has increased by 0.3 bar.

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

Done that now. Got the valve to be showing a fraction over 1.2. Still hearing the clicking, but possibly should give it time and wait for the heating to go off and give it another cycle.

The last 2 things done by plumbers did make a significant change to the sound but not making it quieter!

I almost wish I had left it as it was (as in not have the plumbers drain it again) as although that was still annoying, it was nothing like as bad as this. Before the time they emptied it for the 2nd time, it sounded like a cold tap was running (not sure, but I notice virtually everywhere seems to have a louder cold tap than the hot one) You could only solve this by making sure all of the TRVs were on maximum, so it was an issure if you wanted good control of the temperature. But at least that was totally consistent and predictable, and only the case when the heating was on. This clicking and other stuff only seems to have been an issue since the system was last refilled with the f1 protector added (it didn't have a power flush at any point)

So if what you have suggested and I have now done doesn't work, I'm wondering if a power flush may be the next option, though it obviously will cost and we can't be sure it will work.

 

[John.g]

I wouldn't be holding my breath re the above steps.

Are you getting any air/gas when you vent now (cold).?.

There should really be a air vent right on top of the boiler or on the flow pipe as it leaves the boiler, the boiler probably has a internal one but this is generally shut off after commissioning.
I suppose any air should really gather somewhere else where you can vent it.

I honestly can't suggest any other options, a power flush may work as you say?.

The only thing that I am not 100% sure about is the boiler flow being on the right hand side, the eManual doesn't specifically say so but the schematics of different pipe layouts suggests that it is.
You might check that out with Ideal Logic or some installer here might inform.

Just one other thing, that pressure should rise and fall between a cold and hot system by maybe 0.5bar.

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

I wouldn't be holding my breath re the above steps.

Are you getting any air/gas when you vent now (cold).?.

There should really be a air vent right on top of the boiler or on the flow pipe as it leaves the boiler, the boiler probably has a internal one but this is generally shut off after commissioning.
I suppose any air should really gather somewhere else where you can vent it.

I honestly can't suggest any other options, a power flush may work as you say?.

The only thing that I am not 100% sure about is the boiler flow being on the right hand side, the eManual doesn't specifically say so but the schematics of different pipe layouts suggests that it is.
You might check that out with Ideal Logic or some installer here might inform.

At the stage we had large build ups of air or gas, it seemed that most days, virtually all the radiators in the house would get quite a lot of whatever this was in them. Some of them you could be bleeding for over 30 seconds with the water only spitting just slightly, with significantly more of whatever the air was. Presumably the reason why it was spitting liquid just slightly it was because there were a load of bubbles inside or something.

It is possible that what settled this was the summer and having no heating used at all for many months. This water was very mucky last winter when this reaction (to something) was occurring, so presumably although the water seems clean now and the air is gone, some of the muck build up must be somewhere and maybe it could be related to the noise continuing?

I've tried bleeding the radiators again and they all seem full up. Haven't noticed any air or gas in them since they have been off over summer.

 

[Ric2013]

I doubt the age of the radiators has ANY bearing to the noises. Until they leak radiators don't really change in behaviour. By age, I do literally mean any age. Two thirds of the radiators in the building where I am writing this from are 49 years old.

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

I doubt the age of the radiators has ANY bearing to the noises. Until they leak radiators don't really change in behaviour. By age, I do literally mean any age. Two thirds of the radiators in the building where I am writing this from are 49 years old.

We first thought that nothing should change with the radiators as the pipes hadn't been touched. But all the TRVs had been replaced as well as the boiler as it was that that had failed.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Did they get cleaned eg with an ADEY magna cleanse ?

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

Hasn't been 24 hours yet, but not sure if that makes a difference. But after the adjustments made to the pump (Speed 1 to CP1) and the increase of the pressure gauge to 1.2, neither seem to have made a difference, but were worth trying. Still getting the same clicking and occasional loud bangs in the night when the heating is off.

Did they get cleaned eg with an ADEY magna cleanse ?

As I know we haven't had a power flush at any point, I presume that was never used. We just had our system drained when we had our new boiler fitted, then drained again when we complained about airlocks and noises like a tap was permanently running. They then drained the system and refilled the system with F1 protector in October a year ago. It was just after this when we started using the heating more often that we seemed to get this reaction that caused dirty water and gas / air build up as well as a load of clicking and banging.

Over the summer, the air has gone and the dirt also, unless it has settled somewhere, but nothing has been done since we had this issue. Now it is winter again, the noise has come back. It is just so hard to diagnose what it is.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

It could be something as simple as heat expansion due to the little plastic radiator clips breaking at the back where it goes onto the metal bracket