right procedure to changing part on fire

[beesley121]

Hi guys,

I going to cut a long story short but anyhow, i setup my own business and have employed a lad who has his ccn1. Ive now registered my business as gas safe.

Now, had a call from a woman with a gas fire who's pilot light wont stay lit. Thermocouple my employee says. Anyhow, cant buy just a TC for this fire, has to be whole new pilot assembly.

anyway, going to fit it tomorrow with him and as he is a new starter with me, I want to be confident he carries out the work properly and as he should by law. Im in the process of ordering some cert books for future work and asked him if he needs any for this fire. He told me no!!

can someone please tell me if he is right and if someone could also tell me the correct procedure, i would be really greatful. please pm me if you feel you cannot post it on the forum for obvious reasons. Im happy to give you my details to prove my business is gas safe

thanx

 

[diamondgas]

You'd have to check out the mi's for the fire in my opinion beesley121 ... Is the fire an inset? Coz if it is you'll need the mi's for the coal positions I'd imagine

 

[Barry98]

i assume youve checked all his qualifications with gas safe ?

 

[dancinplumba]

has he got his fires tkt ?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

this could be interesting as steve said if its a inset you will need the mi,s re coal position and what makes your employee so confidant the thermocouple s shot? he has not looked at it yet could just be dirt in the ods or at a extreme case flue issues or even coals not in the right place

 

[beesley121]

yer, checked all his qualifications and have his new card from gas safe which says his ccn1 doesnt run out till the end of next year. says on card he qualified to do fires too.

now, im not disputing that he isnt qualified a ive know this lad for a couple of years and know he worked for a business fitting boilers. also seen his previous gassafe card.

i just want to protect myself as when i signed up to gas safe, i signed a document saying that I would take overall responsibility.

The fire is an 'outset' fire. A valor firelite oxysafe. I would have thought that some paperwork would have to be filled in

if someone could just tell me what the right procedure is, I will be able to watch him and check he does everything he needs too. if not, i can question him and see what he says. Then report back to you guys. ive just want to protect myself

 

[REDSAW]

whats your gs #?

 

[anz]

He can't say for sure that it is the thermocouple.

It could be a number of things as previously stated.

The regulations require no documentation to be filled in for a simple repair, although he will still have to carry out his mandatory checks and inspections.

If you really want paperwork, you can use the CP4 form.

 

[kirkgas]

yer, checked all his qualifications and have his new card from gas safe which says his ccn1 doesnt run out till the end of next year. says on card he qualified to do fires too.

now, im not disputing that he isnt qualified a ive know this lad for a couple of years and know he worked for a business fitting boilers. also seen his previous gassafe card.

i just want to protect myself as when i signed up to gas safe, i signed a document saying that I would take overall responsibility.

The fire is an 'outset' fire. A valor firelite oxysafe. I would have thought that some paperwork would have to be filled in

if someone could just tell me what the right procedure is, I will be able to watch him and check he does everything he needs too. if not, i can question him and see what he says. Then report back to you guys. ive just want to protect myself

sorry to be blunt, but even if i write the procedure down for you to read you are not competant to supervise his work or oversee that he is doing it correctly, as the company rep, and responsible person you dont have to gas safe yourself but it does help, but ultimatly 99.9% of company directors or CEO's are not gas safe, the legal responsibility for carrying out the work is with the operative with the ticket, with regards to him not needing a cert book for a fire repair, he is 100% correct there is no mandatory requirement to fill out paperwork for a repair, it might be a contract requirement between you and your client, you should however make sure he is stocked up with what he does need like warning notices, blank caps and appropraite consumables to carry out his work he will list them for you, you seem like a responsible employer so fair play to you, but as i said leave to the qualified guy and get him the gear he needs to keep you right
Re the comment that it might be the thermocouple, to be fair it could be and even with the full assembly at about £15 it might be worth taking one with you, there are things that a qualified gas guy will know he should check before confirming a problem etc but they dont get discussed on the open forum thats for the gas guy to know what to do, and im sure he will

 

[Mike Jackson]

The rules of registration for gas safe state that :-

s) records are kept of gas work and given to us when we ask. These records must
record, at the least:
– the name of the person doing the gas work;
– what the gas work was;
– the date the gas work was completed;
– the address where the gas work was done; and
– the action taken for unsafe situations.

Surely the best way of recording these details is on a CP1 form complete with any relevant warning notices.

 

[beesley121]

sorry to be blunt, but even if i write the procedure down for you to read you are not competant to supervise his work or oversee that he is doing it correctly, as the company rep, and responsible person you dont have to gas safe yourself but it does help, but ultimatly 99.9% of company directors or CEO's are not gas safe, the legal responsibility for carrying out the work is with the operative with the ticket, with regards to him not needing a cert book for a fire repair, he is 100% correct there is no mandatory requirement to fill out paperwork for a repair, it might be a contract requirement between you and your client, you should however make sure he is stocked up with what he does need like warning notices, blank caps and appropraite consumables to carry out his work he will list them for you, you seem like a responsible employer so fair play to you, but as i said leave to the qualified guy and get him the gear he needs to keep you right
Re the comment that it might be the thermocouple, to be fair it could be and even with the full assembly at about £15 it might be worth taking one with you, there are things that a qualified gas guy will know he should check before confirming a problem etc but they dont get discussed on the open forum thats for the gas guy to know what to do, and im sure he will

thanx guys for your replies

My gas lad has seen the fire for himself and ive already ordered the part but that cost me £30, were do you buy them for £15??

I can understand people not wanting to post on the open forum the complete procedure but i just thought it was strange that no paperwork had to be filled in. At the end of the day, its a part connected to a gas pipe so surely he would have to a tightness test before and afterwards but would he not also have to make sure the fire isnt spilling.

My business is under a 3 month probation at the minute so all works, wether they need reporting or not, have to be reported so the inspector can check that works carried out are to a satisfactory standard. I just want to ensure my guy knows what hes doing and is not going to get me into trouble. I want him to do everything by the book and will supply him with whatever he needs to do this.

 

[kirkgas]

thanx guys for your replies

My gas lad has seen the fire for himself and ive already ordered the part but that cost me £30, were do you buy them for £15??

I can understand people not wanting to post on the open forum the complete procedure but i just thought it was strange that no paperwork had to be filled in. At the end of the day, its a part connected to a gas pipe so surely he would have to a tightness test before and afterwards but would he not also have to make sure the fire isnt spilling.


My business is under a 3 month probation at the minute so all works, wether they need reporting or not, have to be reported so the inspector can check that works carried out are to a satisfactory standard. I just want to ensure my guy knows what hes doing and is not going to get me into trouble. I want him to do everything by the book and will supply him with whatever he needs to do this.

sorry i constantly let myself down by quoting prices that are prob in old money as its that long since i did any real work, so £15 was prob in about 1999 or so, i dont disagree that is it good practice to record ALL gas work but it isnt mandatory, but the bottom line is you are the boss and if i work for you and you want paperwork for every job i will do it, but it adds cost and time to every job, but what price a solid audit trail and peace of mind, by definition of doing gas work on the fire he must do certain tests to confirm the fire is working and can be left safely, on an open flued appliance this will include visual inspection of the flue, flue flow and spillage so it doesnt need to be documented anywhere because if it fails later and is traced to his poor work he will be caught out anyway as he cant say "ah but i didnt do a spillage test"
fair play to you wanting everything watertight (or gastight) for future inspections as it is YOUR business, and its nice to hear a boss who is willing to help his guy help the firm,

 

[johnnyplumb]

Regarding filling out paperwork or not for repairs, maybe another grey area here. if you dont fill in paperwork & something happens at a later date, you could always say it 'wiznae me', i never touched the boiler, if there's no paperwork there maybe no proof. On the other hand if you keep a record , you could use it to prove you had done everything right & it was'nt your fault. There's obviously more work involved for us, but i'm suprised gas safe dont make it compulsory to record all gas work.

 

[stevetheplumber]

tightness testing would be un necessary when working on a pilot assembly just ldf any joints
im sure that will get some response

 

[gasmarc]

The only paperwork I am interested in is payment, As for benchmark and all the other stuff each to there own ,I just fill out the guarantee and thats it and the magnacleaner guarantee ,