Self cleaning drain smell unblocking

[cluelessDIYguy]

Hello

My upstairs shower drain is smelling absolutely rotten, water is draining a little slower than normal. I’m 99% sure it’s my gf’s hair (had this issue in the past).

The waste is a Crosswater self cleaning vortex style one (think it’s made by Wirquin) to go with the shower tray. It blocked in the past and we took down the plasterboard in the room below to access it, there was no runoff and water was actually trying to run back towards the shower along with several unecessary elbows. I got a local plumber to fix it, and he changed up the pipe work and it’s been great for the last 18 months.
Now as above it’s smelling foul, I can actually smell it in the room below (I have the plasterboard down). I will have no problem fixing it this time because I have access but I need a solution for future. I have ordered some eco unblocker to try hopefully tomorrowbut I don’t have much faith going by other online reviews.

I would really like to avoid having a service hatch in the room below, same with harsh chemicals because I have a septic tank. I can’t keep taking the plasterboard down either.

we did have a different waste fitted briefly which looked awful in the tray and didn’t really work (found out later this was because of the water flowing back towards the shower).


Is there any way or technique of snaking these self cleaning wastes from the shower room? or a tool that could be recommended? I’ve tried manual drain snakes and plastic barbed things but they really struggle to work through the waste.

I also believe my plumber who did the installation should have laid the stone tray on top of marine ply, but chose not to.

Any advice is greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

[Roy_66]

Hi DIY guy,

I'll leave it to the experts here to suggest best simple solutions to this tricky problem.

Drains I think will always tend to block if you can't put bleach down once a week so you need access to traps. I think there probably is a solution you can access from above. Washing you hair with conditioner will I'm told make it worse, and the more you wash your hair the more conditioning it might need.

If the above fails then I'm wondering about if you could have a dummy light fitting or something similar below e.g. large boss for light fitting, to hide the access. No 240 electrics etc. in that of course.

For the ply what does it say in the tray instructions? Presumably you wouldn't want the tray higher, and personally I would not cut into the joists.

Cheers,

Roy (a very amateur plumber)

 

[rpm]

Looking at the photo is the first elbow connected to the trap a push-fit type, if so then I would buy a cheap wet-vac then disconnect that joint, connect the vac to the pipe to the drains with gaffa tape and let it run for awhile whilst having a cuppa. If anything else such as a basin is connected to the pipe then use wet cloths on plug holes and overflow holes to give the vac a good suction.

 

[cluelessDIYguy]

Hi DIY guy,

I'll leave it to the experts here to suggest best simple solutions to this tricky problem.

Drains I think will always tend to block if you can't put bleach down once a week so you need access to traps. I think there probably is a solution you can access from above. Washing you hair with conditioner will I'm told make it worse, and the more you wash your hair the more conditioning it might need.

If the above fails then I'm wondering about if you could have a dummy light fitting or something similar below e.g. large boss for light fitting, to hide the access. No 240 electrics etc. in that of course.

For the ply what does it say in the tray instructions? Presumably you wouldn't want the tray higher, and personally I would not cut into the joists.

Cheers,

Roy (a very amateur plumber)

The plumber did cut into the joists, the shower room was supposed to have the tray level access with the tiles but it ended up being recessed maybe 20mm when the job was completed so there’s a slight step down into the tray. The tray instructions say it should be sat in marine ply.

I questioned the tray not being level access when I got home and saw the completed job, he said it was done as a favour to me because I’m so tall and it gained me some height. I was ok with it. I was away with work for 2 weeks when the majority of the fit was getting done.

I am not a plumber by any means, but a question I have - would it not have made more sense to have my waste drain outlet angled 45 degrees or so to the left to give it a straighter run?

The ceilings are low so 4x GU10 downlights is pretty much what I’m limited to, part of the reason I really want to avoid putting a service hatch in.


Thanks rpm, I can easily disconnect and remove this time but Ill need to patch the ceiling up eventually meaning I’ll only be able to access from up top on the waste inlet On the actual tray.
The waste has been great, I just wish I could find a way of cleaning/snaking from the tray?

I had a suggestion from a friend of an in-line trap(?) with the silicon membrane in to stop smells coming back through, but I’m pretty sure the hair accumulates straight after the waste and I’ll just have the same problem.

 

[rpm]

Thinking that your friend is referring to a non return valve there, known to many as a fanny valve which would fail in time.

 

[Ric2013]

The main issues here seem to be smell and blockage.

A waste trap should prevent smells from the pipework coming up into the room. Is the trap faulty, or are there pipework issues that make the trap fail to seal? One indicator might be whether smells come up from the waste when the shower is in use. If yes, then almost certainly a faulty trap rather than dirt in the trap smelling.

I am, of course, assuming your waste incorporates a trap, in which case applying your friend's suggestion should not be needed.

Blockages are often caused by the cut pipes being left rough internally. The snags can then trap hairs. Purpose-designed shower traps are usually accessible from the top so you shouldn't need access from below, though if it were my own house I would prefer to have access if possible.

If you can smell it in the room below, there may be a fault in your pipework. The pipework should be airtight, so where is the smell coming out?

As far as tray support is concerned, most trays have pedestal/riser kits that would give support not greatly dissimilar to that afforded by your joists, so probably not a great issue.

 

[cluelessDIYguy]

The main issues here seem to be smell and blockage.

A waste trap should prevent smells from the pipework coming up into the room. Is the trap faulty, or are there pipework issues that make the trap fail to seal? One indicator might be whether smells come up from the waste when the shower is in use. If yes, then almost certainly a faulty trap rather than dirt in the trap smelling.

I am, of course, assuming your waste incorporates a trap, in which case applying your friend's suggestion should not be needed.

Blockages are often caused by the cut pipes being left rough internally. The snags can then trap hairs. Purpose-designed shower traps are usually accessible from the top so you shouldn't need access from below, though if it were my own house I would prefer to have access if possible.

If you can smell it in the room below, there may be a fault in your pipework. The pipework should be airtight, so where is the smell coming out?

As far as tray support is concerned, most trays have pedestal/riser kits that would give support not greatly dissimilar to that afforded by your joists, so probably not a great issue.

In my original post I have posted a pic of what’s underneath the shower (I’ll post it again here). I cannot see any trap, there’s just the waste which eventually runs towards a large waste pipe at the toilet area. I think because of the location there possibly wasn’t enough room for a P-trap?

I have not noticed any smell whilst actually using the shower, I’ll pay attention when I have one shortly this morning.

I have wondered wether there’s a gap in the pipework but the room above isn’t airtight. One time when the shower overfilled with a hair blockage (before the runoff angle was corrected) it flooded downstairs, the water escaped through a gap between the shower tray and tiles. You can see the light from the room above clearly through this gap from downstairs looking up. I wondered if that gap was enough for the smell to reach the dining room.

The tray is stone so it’s basically just a large slab that sits on whatever you have below it, there’s no adjustment on it.

As I have a septic system could the smell be caused in a blockage elsewhere? (soil stack?).

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Is it a proper water trap or a mechanical trap eg silicon

As if it’s the silicon type hair / other stuff could be keeping the joint / silicon open so smells are coming through

 

[cluelessDIYguy]

Is it a proper water trap or a mechanical trap eg silicon

View attachment 43971
As if it’s the silicon type hair / other stuff could be keeping the joint / silicon open so smells are coming through

There isn’t a trap on the Upstairs shower that I can see, looks to be waste straight into pipework. Attached a pic to this post. The inline trap mentioned earlier was a suggestion from a friend, I don’t actually have one fitted.

I just had a shower and noticed the smell was there even when the water was running.

My downstairs bathroom as of today is now also smelling, very similar smell to upstairs...
Both the sink and bath in the downstairs room have proper Traps. There’s a toilet/sink/bath in this downstairs room. If I dump the water from the sink in the downstairs bathroom water will gurgle up through the drain into the adjacent bath. Would a siphon trap potentially fix the smell in this room? The bath looks to have a low profile trap and sink a regular p trap.
I’m struggling to understand why the downstairs room could also smell if the units in there all have traps (unless the traps aren’t holding water)? I’ve dumped water down the bath and sink but it still smells rotten.

 

[Roy_66]

There isn’t a trap on the Upstairs shower that I can see, looks to be waste straight into pipework. Attached a pic to this post. The inline trap mentioned earlier was a suggestion from a friend, I don’t actually have one fitted.

I just had a shower and noticed the smell was there even when the water was running.

My downstairs bathroom as of today is now also smelling, very similar smell to upstairs...
Both the sink and bath in the downstairs room have proper Traps. There’s a toilet/sink/bath in this downstairs room. If I dump the water from the sink in the downstairs bathroom water will gurgle up through the drain into the adjacent bath. Would a siphon trap potentially fix the smell in this room? The bath looks to have a low profile trap and sink a regular p trap.
I’m struggling to understand why the downstairs room could also smell if the units in there all have traps (unless the traps aren’t holding water)? I’ve dumped water down the bath and sink but it still smells rotten.

Just s stupid question first: Is the ventilation at the top of the soil stack working ok? And where is it, and if internal is the valve working ok?

I'm thinking worth you getting a Pro in to look at all your waste plumbing.

Just one dumb thought. Could you route the shower waste downstairs a separate route via a trap in a downstairs cupboard where you can periodically undo put a bucket under and pour some bleach down from upstairs.

Other silly question is are you sure the shower waste has no built in trap. It just can't be acceptable not to have one. There are lots of flush trays these days so solutions are avail.

Perhaps for a test for the smells, gaffer tape over he shower waste, open the windows for an hour then shut them, and then see following morning if smells returned around the house.

Is your soil stack internally boxed in or can you a access?

Cheers,

Roy

 

[Ben-gee]

The waste is a trap, it is the vortex type which are a bit like a snail whirl, wirquin’s is “twisto”.
They’re supposed to spin the water around fast into a funnel like a tornado, and this then whizzes everything away - so it “self cleans”.

The are supplied with Mira flight trays and if it’s direct to floor I bin them as I don’t believe in magic. I use a top access trap so hair can be removed, the twisto is difficult to clear - wet vac and bits of wire kind of do it.

However in your case it sounds to me as if the drains may be blocked - have you tried lifting a manhole?

If it were me, as you have the ceiling down I would change that to a top access trap and the patch ceiling- all maintenance can be done from above.

Also need to re silicone if you can see light !

 

[Ric2013]

Just s stupid question first: Is the ventilation at the top of the soil stack working ok? And where is it, and if internal is the valve working ok?

I'm thinking worth you getting a Pro in to look at all your waste plumbing.

Just one dumb thought. Could you route the shower waste downstairs a separate route via a trap in a downstairs cupboard where you can periodically undo put a bucket under and pour some bleach down from upstairs.

Other silly question is are you sure the shower waste has no built in trap. It just can't be acceptable not to have one. There are lots of flush trays these days so solutions are avail.

Perhaps for a test for the smells, gaffer tape over he shower waste, open the windows for an hour then shut them, and then see following morning if smells returned around the house.

Is your soil stack internally boxed in or can you a access?

Cheers,

Roy

Agree with all the above, except the 'dumb thought' paragraph. Whatever my be in the pipework beyond the trap, the trap should not allow these smells to pass back into the room.