Train 4 Trade Skills

[fuzzy]

......that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway.

Can you qualify that statement please?

Thought it was pretty simple, how about this one.

THERE WILL BE NO TECHNICAL CERTIFICATES FROM JULY 2010, no worky no qualification

 

[kwakerdude911]

i will be honest here
i am still doing a course for plumbing nvq 2
that is the least employers are looking for now as i have looked on a lot of sites
6 weeks to learn thejob aint good
i have learnt the theory over 2 years in my own time and passed them
it can be done if u spend time on it and researching anything u are un sure of
the practicals will be quick but as long as u have the theory u should be ok
then go self employed
and as for gas qualifications
seems a mine filed
as i think u need to have so many hours under your belt working ofr a gas registered company
they dont tell u that -
good luck

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Cheers kwakerdude,

Been plumbing on and off since 1996. My fiancee' at that time, who ran the quality assurance and technical departments of a well known bathrooms and kitchens manufacturing company and I, attended a night school class at the local college to learn how to plumb in a kitchen before renovating and install radiators and pipework for new central heating system in own newly aquired 1930s house. The new boiler was fitted by a CORGI Gas fitter but we fitted the rest, followed by a new bathroom suite a couple months later; staff discount of cause.

As far as the theory goes, been studying City & Guilds 6129 in my own time since 2007, firstly through PlumbingSkills and ATL before the Skills Centre company director stole loans of students cash to fund his gambling habit. Then with Train 4 Trades Skills and ATL once the government, Barclays Partner Finance and T4TS stepped in, took over the blended learning courses in Plumbing and Electrics C&G and NVQ's, so everyone studying with the Cardiff based company could complete their studies and not lose out because of a corrupt <NO SWEARING> in the finance chain.

 

[WHPES]

I am currently on the 6089 course and it's just for the bit of paper at the end. I am a fully qualified engineer and the sort of thing covered in the course I have been doing for years albeit on a larger scale.

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

As a engineer I come across so many badly designed systems from an engineering perspective and I can tell very quickly a well designed system when I see it.

I have a few times been called to look at commercial systems where someone with insufficient expeience has been on it and got out of their depth. You are better to walk away from a job which is beyond you than to "have a go".

 

[fuzzy]

I am currently on the 6089 course and it's just for the bit of paper at the end. I am a fully qualified engineer and the sort of thing covered in the course I have been doing for years albeit on a larger scale.

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

As a engineer I come across so many badly designed systems from an engineering perspective and I can tell very quickly a well designed system when I see it.

I have a few times been called to look at commercial systems where someone with insufficient expeience has been on it and got out of their depth. You are better to walk away from a job which is beyond you than to "have a go".

I have come across newbies into the trade doing jobs that are beyond them only to qoute that they are learning each time. I wouldnt be impressed if somebody learnt on my job that i was paying for!
I think your advice on the principles is spot on. you need to know why not just how to! That is the difference between a tradesman and a 'mate'.

 

[WHPES]

If you come to something new to you and have no experience in it, but have background knowledge, you can get a tape measure, calculator, textbook, pen and paper and work out what's going on, what to use and how to do the task.

You can always tell my work as I use a lot of swept bends, swept tees etc in my larger circuits and avoid restrictions as much as possible. Maybe you think it's a bit OTT but all my visible nut heads and screw slots line up at the same angle. Looks neat for anyone looking. I worked with Navy guys for a while and that is where I picked up that habit as they are very particular about the appearance of finished jobs.

 

[student plumber]

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

-----------------------------------------

I agree, I'm on one of these courses and there's methods in the coursework and 3D software, but I figured there has to be more than that. I'm thinking if you have pipe and you take the outside measurement but it's 1mm wall you're accounting for water that isn't there, or an immersion heater but how much element is in there or is that all ready accounted for, or am I a bit off track there.

When I go for practical I want to try as many methods in an area as possible e.g. pipe bending, not just what's in the book. I've been working in sheet metal and microns make a lot of difference. The method for bending I cut a tube to length first then bend, I worked out how much I gained before hand, and they came out pretty much the same (not a very accurate bender) and very quickly. I always try and look deeper I would be very interested to hear more.

 

[Joanna]

Tells me ur on the team. Only 1 of about a thousand sad stories with such positivity for t4ts Ive come across. Wonder how much ur getting to sing their praises. All proffesionals warn of these expensive waste of time bull**** courses, gets no1 anywhere but in debt. GET A GRIP COZ UR NOT FOOLIN ANY 1 ESP ME!

 

[heinz57]

Whether you've got a million bits of paper that say your a genious or not dont mean dic#. All any employer will see is whether you can do the job or not, thats pretty much all they care about. If your face fits, you get along with the rest of the crew/customers then great. People worry too much about 6129 and 5817 or r2 fuc~ing d2!!!! The only bits of paper you should be worried about are gassafe, part -p and un-vented. As for trade skills, for most people there a complete rip off, waste of time. Being self employed is an absolute nightmare, especially while doing it alone, you have to be a tradesman, accountant, mechanic, business manager, lawyer, ad-man and all at the same time. When you get home from work you spend frigging hours doing paperwork, it aint easy. When you go for an interview stop flapping about your 6185 or your c3p0, tell the boss your comming to work for him for a weeks fuc#ing trial, at the end of the week when you've got the job, problem solved!!!!! Works for me.

 

[bobby]

i just started the course and feel it has something to offer yes its expensive but hopefully it will be money well spent i know qualifications dont mean a thing without practical experience but you have to start somewhere! i'll keep posting throughout the course with an honest opinion!so wish me luck!!!

 

[Karl Walker]

I started the T4TS Plumbing Course about 2 months ago.. I am finding it very interesting and think that it is a really involved trade to learn.
But i am under no illusions that this will be easy or a quick way into a high paying career reguardless of the sales pitch that was given.
I spoke to a Tutor or a TA this morning they confirmed that i would be doing my Practical @ Luton based on the course that i was doing.
Its going to take time and i will have to give up evenings and weekends if i have to to get the necessary experiance required to competently goto a job on my own and be let loose on someone's home.
Yes its alot of money but think about it in the long run.

What will you achieve by investing money in yourself?

Ive been reading alot of the posts on this forum and i too still have doubts, I am doing this course to try and get me from between a rock and a hard place (a career that seems to be going no where despite been doing it for 7 years). end of the day no one can take the qualifications away from me.

Also do what is right for you! don't sign up if you don't think that you will be able to put in the required time.

 

[marksparky]

Hello Karl...Its not all about the time and the effort that you put into these training courses..its all about what you get out of it at the end....be it a tech certification..an OCN ..or a step towards an NVQ.. whatever load of crap you ve been sold....I hope you researched it all before signing up...cos I didn,t and I got stung for £4000...bringing home a 6022 and 6032..which does nt mean anything in the trade....yeah I got my water regs Qualification but it does nt matter with those type of City and Guilds awards.....

 

[fuzzy]

wots the 6022 and 6032, never heard of em?

 

[Karl Walker]

City & Guilds 6022 Domestic Copper Installer certificate
City & Guilds 6032 Sanitary Accommodation certificate
2 day weekend assessment only course
Previous plumbing experience mandatory
Stand alone qualification not part of the NVQ
Does not qualify the person as a plumber with an NVQ
1 practical and 1 written test per certificate
Information from City & Guilds 6022 And City & Guilds 6032 Plumbing Course in York - PPL Training

 

[Karl Walker]

Sorry to hear that Mark.

TBH i didn't do much research. I had the questions answered that I had over the phone. I asked what i would be doing i.e where and when. what qualifications i would get and how long the average person takes to complete the course.

Im doing the C&G 6129 L2 & L3. Im going to call local plumbing companys looking for someone to take me on to show me how to be a competent reliable plumber. And to see how to properly fault find system problems, rather than text book faults 1 problem 1 solution thats all you need to know.

I will continue to post based on my views and outcomes of this course and how it has or hasn't worked for me and if it works out for me. I have no problem telling anyone thatreads these post if its a scam or not, my opinion so far is not.

Regards