Troubleshoot - Plumbing Diagram

[NIUCO]

Hi All,

I'm living on the top floor (6th) of an apartment block.
Water Pressure and Hard Water are my main problems in the flat but also I need a Purified Water Filter.
A friend of mine who is not a plumber has drawn a diagram suggesting that this would be the best way to resolve everything but I need a second opinion prior to installation.

Please see attached diagram.

 

[Riley]

A few observations. What pump are you proposing to fit? There are very strict rules about pumping mains water. Is the purified water going to your kitchen tap or to a standalone tap specifically for that water? You may not be aware but you cant have softened water at the kitchen cold. In addition I think you need some non-return valves in there although some softners will have them built in. Finally, a drain off cock after the stopcock is usually advisable particularly if there is now the potential of having to change/maintain the pump in the future

 

[Chalked]

You won't need a prv if you are pumping the mains. I think it's about 9litres a minute you can draw from mains( don't quote me tho) .

You would be better installing a break tank after the softner, then you can pump softned water at a decent pressure. Let the mains go to your drinking water ( normally kitchen) and outside taps before the softner.

 

[NIUCO]

I'm an expat in Beijing, China.. pump recommended by the B&Q branch in Beijing.

The purified water is going through an Aquasana 3 stage filter and is a stand alone tap next to the kitchen sink.

The Water Softer unit is this product provided by East Midland Water Company:
EML10 10ltr Meter Digital Control Water Softener + Hardness test

My friend has added a non-return/check valve after the water softener unit and there is already one fitted to the combo boiler. Do you suggest a non-return valve to be fitted between the Drinking Water and Water Softener?

The PRV was to reduce the pressure from the pump if the pump was to strong for the system

Good idea regarding the Drain Off Cock as this would help with repairs etc...

 

[Riley]

Very difficult for us to comment regarding rules and regs in Beijing. You would be better off enlisting a qualified plumber over there. I would still be very surprised however if softened water was recommended through the main kitchen drinking tap. the pump you are showing just looks like a bronze pump which wouldn't be legal over here however it might be fully acceptable over there we just don't know

 

[Unregistered]

No one drinks or cooks with the water from the kitchen sink tap because of the High Levels of Chloramines used in the Beijing water supply.

I enquired and there are no rules or regulations regarding the plumbing, gas and electric installations and there is no such thing as a qualified plumber in China which I find very hard to believe but all the plumbers knocking on my door are bodge the cowboy builder types

 

[Radioman]

Very difficult for us to comment regarding rules and regs in Beijing. You would be better off enlisting a qualified plumber over there. I would still be very surprised however if softened water was recommended through the main kitchen drinking tap. the pump you are showing just looks like a bronze pump which wouldn't be legal over here however it might be fully acceptable over there we just don't know

It's perfectly OK to have softened water as potable water. Has been for years, there more sodium in a glass of milk. See the link below for further clarifications.
http://www.kinetico.co.uk/faqs.aspx

 

[Riley]

It's perfectly OK to have softened water as potable water. Has been for years, there more sodium in a glass of milk. See the link below for further clarifications.
FAQs | Kinetico UK

Fair enough I was always taught otherwise

 

[Radioman]

Fair enough I was always taught otherwise

It does make installs so much easier

 

[Riley]

No I can imagine it doeS. I'm sure this point only came up a few weeks back and somebody produced some WRAS documentation still saying one outlet must remain untouched. I thought the change in sodium content was only relevant to the very young and the very old anyway

 

[chris watkins]

It's perfectly OK to have softened water as potable water. Has been for years, there more sodium in a glass of milk. See the link below for further clarifications.
FAQs | Kinetico UK

Sorry but just because a water softener manufacturer makes statements you have quoted does not make it correct or Legal, they tend to have a vested interest.

The Water Regulations 1999, WRAS guide state clearly that -
R26.2
"In houses a drinking water tap should be located over the kitchen sink and be connected to the supply pipe. Where drinking water is required in premises which use a water softener, an unsoftened drinking water tap should be provided".

As someone who suffers from high blood pressure it is very important to me that I have no additional sodium, I tent to consume a bit more water than I do milk.

BTW the installation of a basic exchange water softener is a notifiable in England but clearly thinks are a lot different in the wild west (China).

OP the diagram is fine apart from the single check on outlet of softener needs to move to the other side i.e. in-between drinking Tee & softener, it is there to stop any back flow.

 

[Riley]

Thanks mate

 

[ShaunCorbs]

dont think they have water regs in china

 

[Dotty]

If you're an ex pat living in China why does your ip address show you as being in California?

 

[Riley]

Super sleuth

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Or using a remote ip to get around the Chinese block lists

 

[Dotty]

Or using a remote ip to get around the Chinese block lists

Possible I suppose. Reasonable response if he is.

 

[zzzjim]

Chlorinated bugs in your water are better filtered out !
( Dioxin is nasty stuff ) -- Best to scrape your mug well after its been bleached .
UK water is just so clean .
(Doing chemistry may shorten you life , twice , the second session is stressing over how
everything is processed / preserved / and a hazard to life ,that tastes so good.)

 

[NIUCO]

If you're an ex pat living in China why does your ip address show you as being in California?

I'm using a VPN in China because a huge amount of websites are banned here

 

[Dotty]

I'm using a VPN in China because a huge amount of websites are banned here

Fair enough. We check these things every now and then. We had a huge ddos attack last year and still get a bit twitchy when something doesn't look right. You got the benefit of the doubt because my daughter had to do something similar when she was in Wuhan earlier this year.

 

[Riley]

Fair enough. We check these things every now and then. We had a huge ddos attack last year and still get a bit twitchy when something doesn't look right. You got the benefit of the doubt because my daughter had to do something similar when she was in Wuhan earlier this year.

youre all heart you

 

[Dotty]

youre all heart you

I'm lovely, I am. ...

 

[harrygashull]

props a chinese spy trying to copy our expert plumbing methods lol

The salamander pumps can boost up to 9l/min and also self regulate up and down according to fluctuating pressure...

Salamander Home Boost mains pressure booster pump

 

[chris watkins]

I'm lovely, I am. ...

So you keep saying.

 

[NIUCO]

Hi All, Just like to say thank you to all those who have been kind enough to help out with my enquiry and that I was wondering whether or not you can scribble down a diagram for me to follow in order to plumb in the previously mentioned diagram using PP-R pipe with the current set up I have at home. I enclose a few photos and if more information is required please let me know.

The yellow handle ball valve connected to the green pp-r pipe is the mains*

The flexi hose, I guess this must be drain the down point as it is situated near the waste pipe*

There is an electrical socket in the cupboard as seen in the photo.

*(I haven't a clue which direction is the flow).

The cupboard space is 80Wx55Dx70H.

The maximum gap between the water softener and the back wall is 12cm.

 

[NIUCO]

Here is a list of PP-R fittings that are available in China for me to use:

 

[NIUCO]

Here is something I have bashed together on my computer in order to try and install within both cupboards to avoid water coming into contact with the electric socket.

 

[chris watkins]

Were good on this forum but there are limits to your powers you know!!!!

Picking fitting from a pipework system we have never come across & without sizes given.

Then sorting out which pipe is which when we only have a couple of photos of them at the back of the cupboard & they are built in to the wall, without have access to the M.Instructions & with you being half way around the world an all.

It is a bit too much for even these budding Supper Plumbing Heroes.

If only I had one of these :sorcerer:

 

[ShaunCorbs]

o god not them fittings they require special glue and need fitting in a special way and as above and the back of the cupboard would need to be removed