Vailant ecotec pro 28 pressure

[Johns23]

Hello.

I’ve lived in the property for 4 years and anytime the pressure got low (0.8 bar) I would use the fill taps to release more water into the system. Ever since British Gas did their annual boiler check about 3 months ago, I’ve had to do this too up method more and more. My pressure is now 1.8 bar which is too high but seems to lose pressure and need topping up every other day. I can’t see any leaks and the pressure reading isn’t changing so any ideas why I’m losing my hot water and heating until I let some more water into the system and then it fires straight back up?

 

[Scott_D]

If you have British Gas cover you may need to use it and call them out

 

[Johns23]

If you have British Gas cover you may need to use it and call them out

Thanks for the reply. We don’t have that but considering using their repair and cover service.

 

[Scott_D]

Check all radiators and visible pipes including the small copper pipe that goes to outside form your boiler

 

[Johns23]

Check all radiators and visible pipes including the small copper pipe that goes to outside form your boiler

For leaks? I can’t see anything wrong with any of them.

 

[cjg]

run your heating for an hour then check what the pressure gone to.

 

[Johns23]

run your heating for an hour then check what the pressure gone to.

It actually went up to 2.0 now it has the f.75 code again and all off. I’m not going to fill the loop again and call out BG I think.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Tbh better off calling a local gas safe engy out repair I think would be around £40 plus vat etc

 

[cjg]

its the pump or your flow senser thats playing up. with the sound of things.

 

[Johns23]

its the pump or your flow senser thats playing up. with the sound of things.

Thank you. British Gas are coming to look at it tomorrow so hopefully will be easy to sort.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Thank you. British Gas are coming to look at it tomorrow so hopefully will be easy to sort.

BG - Don’t count on it. I hope you get it sorted, but would have gone local independent familiar with this boiler.

 

[Johns23]

So BG came round today and said 2.9 bar is ok!??!! I called back afterwards as that’s not what it says anywhere else and they are sending someone else tomorrow.

I drained the radiators and the reading was stuck at 1.7 bar so turned on the boiler without refilling as didn’t want to add more pressure. It made a lot of strange noises and smelled a bit funny but not of gas. I then checked the dial and it had zero pressure at all. I quickly filled it with some water from the full loop and it’s working again but worried I’ve done damage.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

standard bg least they turned up I wouldn’t go off the digi guage go off a mechanical one

As the digi pressure sensor is fecked / blocked

 

[Johns23]

Thanks, definitely a lesson learnt. Is it possible I’ve done damage starting it up with low pressure/hardly any water as believed it was at 1.7 bar? It made a real racket as though trying to flush water through and had a funny smell, not burning or gas though. I then filled with water but still not enough so made the same noise then I ended up filling up and seems ok now but worried it could have caused damage?

I’ve just turned it off now until BG come tomorrow.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Short term you are fine long term eg overheating sounds like an aircraft going over thumping and banging etc it would cause damage

 

[Johns23]

Short term you are fine long term eg overheating sounds like an aircraft going over thumping and banging etc it would cause damage

Thanks. So as long as I don’t do it again I should be fine

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep

 

[king of pipes]

Your expansion vessel inside the boiler needs checking for its correct pressure this needs to be done with the boiler drained it should be between 0.7 to 1 bar any reputable engineer can fix this if it's found to be ruptured it may need replacing and possibly a couple of smaller parts . Kop

 

[Johns23]

Your expansion vessel inside the boiler needs checking for its correct pressure this needs to be done with the boiler drained it should be between 0.7 to 1 bar any reputable engineer can fix this if it's found to be ruptured it may need replacing and possibly a couple of smaller parts . Kop

 

[Johns23]

Thanks for the reply, I will mention it to them tomorrow (they cancelled the appt). I have a feeling that it will be a repeat of the first appt whereby they will turn up, say there’s nothing they can see wrong from a quick visual inspection and leave

Any tips on what I could say to make them stay and fix the actual issue?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Ask for a senior repair engineer as the fault is still there

Also there in breach of contract as they haven’t repaired the boiler so you would like a refund on the repair and maintenance contract I’m guessing you went for this type

 

[Johns23]

Ask for a senior repair engineer as the fault is still there

Also there in breach of contract as they haven’t repaired the boiler so you would like a refund on the repair and maintenance contract I’m guessing you went for this type

Ok thank you

 

[king of pipes]

BG are not the company they once were I went to a install yesterday they fitted only just over a year ago looked rushed and lacked the finishing touches , the benchmark was unreadable and obviously completed in the van the first service should have been free but they could not service the boiler for the next six months apparently?? Another one I have on my books now . Kop

 

[Johns23]

So BG checked the expansion vessel today and it was totally flat so recharged it and no water was coming out so was convinced it didn’t need replacing. The pressure looks like it’s starting to drop already though but hard to tell as apparently my pressure sensor needs replacing too which they should be doing on weds. What would cause the expansion vessel to do that if not damaged? If it is still dropping pressure, what next? Thanks again.

 

[king of pipes]

Replace the expansion vessel and I'd do the pressure relief valve aswell, give it a proper service not just a safety check take the burner out completely clean inside the heat exchanger clean the electrodes and flush through I've had a failed heat exchanger you will know if it absolutely filthy in there, the flow sensor is a common problem especially on systems without a magnetic filter or badly maintained without a inhibitor they clog up with system debris so if your systems dirty ? then it's likely to happen again . Kop

 

[cjg]

ya but king of pipes, its british gas !!!!!!!! lol.

 

[Johns23]

Replace the expansion vessel and I'd do the pressure relief valve aswell, give it a proper service not just a safety check take the burner out completely clean inside the heat exchanger clean the electrodes and flush through I've had a failed heat exchanger you will know if it absolutely filthy in there, the flow sensor is a common problem especially on systems without a magnetic filter or badly maintained without a inhibitor they clog up with system debris so if your systems dirty ? then it's likely to happen again . Kop

Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I will suggest all of this on weds, probably to a very surprised face

 

[king of pipes]

ya but king of pipes, its british gas !!!!!!!! lol.

I know mate but I'm sick of people getting ripped off they do the bare minimum possible in my book prevention is better and cheaper than cure, service a boiler properly keep the water clean you won't go far wrong I've got over 80+ boilers and very rarely do I get a issue .

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Tbh they should have all these parts on the van

Shrader valve needs changing
Vaillant pressure sensor
Prv

As there common stock items

 

[king of pipes]

Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I will suggest all of this on weds, probably to a very surprised face

Yeh mate he'll choke on his tea

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

It's alright, all these s*** BG engineers are keeping me in business

 

[Johns23]

Hello. So a quick update…

Had the expansion vessel recharged and now seems ok. PRV ok. Pressure sensor replaced as faulty. Still loses pressure mostly when not in use. If I leave the house for any period it drops more. Have Dynarod coming out at some point next to see if they can detect a leak as British Gas are at a loss.

Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Would want the prv changing as they can not seal once opened

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Wouldn't be unheard of for the HEX to leak back (Pin ***** inside) and back down the condensate drain, had a couple of Vaillants do this. Although it's quite rare.

 

[king of pipes]

Get em to take the burner out the heat exchanger it will be a mess in there if there's a leak internally in there .

 

[Johns23]

Ok thanks, I’ll suggest these if they don’t find anything with the Dynarod infrared thing as it sounds like they’ll be at a loss then.

 

[Mr F22]

Hi, the f75 is quite common for Vaillants. Pump/wps/low pressure/expansion vessel are a few of the things you will find.

I read above that the vessel was empty and was recharged ✔ and wps replaced.

My procedure as an engineer.
For low pressure. First to check all of the pipework, check the filter as they're prone to leaking.
Check all Radiator valves.
Pipework in cupboards, lofts, drain valves, inside the boiler etc.

Drain down the boiler. Recharge the expansion vessel, test the schrader valve with ldf.
While the boiler is drained, if you have a pressure reading say 0.3bar, then you will need to replace the wps (water pressure sensor £16) as you should have 0bar once drained. And showing you that the wps is given a false reading. Usually blocked showing signs of a dirty heating system. Check/clean filter.

Check outside at the prv (pressure relief valve) termination for any signs of a drip.

Also as previous engineers mentioned, check the heat exchanger for a split.

Another way to try locate the loss of pressure, once all system presure is topped up and running.
Turn off the flow and return isolation valves under neath the boiler (4mm Allen key, quarter turn). Leaving you without heating (turn off the heating at controls while isolated)
Leave isoated for "X" amount of days, then check your system pressure. If you have a lose of pressure while your heating is isolated, the fault is inside the boiler, have a visual of parts inside boiler then check the heat exchanger.

However if the hot water stayed on ok for "X" days, next step is to open the flow and return isolations.
If you get the pressure drop once opened, this tells you that the leak is on the heating circuit.

I hope this helps somewhat.

You're better off with a vaillant recommended Engineer in my opinion.

 

[Johns23]

Hi, the f75 is quite common for Vaillants. Pump/wps/low pressure/expansion vessel are a few of the things you will find.

I read above that the vessel was empty and was recharged ✔ and wps replaced.

My procedure as an engineer.
For low pressure. First to check all of the pipework, check the filter as they're prone to leaking.
Check all Radiator valves.
Pipework in cupboards, lofts, drain valves, inside the boiler etc.

Drain down the boiler. Recharge the expansion vessel, test the schrader valve with ldf.
While the boiler is drained, if you have a pressure reading say 0.3bar, then you will need to replace the wps (water pressure sensor £16) as you should have 0bar once drained. And showing you that the wps is given a false reading. Usually blocked showing signs of a dirty heating system. Check/clean filter.

Check outside at the prv (pressure relief valve) termination for any signs of a drip.

Also as previous engineers mentioned, check the heat exchanger for a split.

Another way to try locate the loss of pressure, once all system presure is topped up and running.
Turn off the flow and return isolation valves under neath the boiler (4mm Allen key, quarter turn). Leaving you without heating (turn off the heating at controls while isolated)
Leave isoated for "X" amount of days, then check your system pressure. If you have a lose of pressure while your heating is isolated, the fault is inside the boiler, have a visual of parts inside boiler then check the heat exchanger.

However if the hot water stayed on ok for "X" days, next step is to open the flow and return isolations.
If you get the pressure drop once opened, this tells you that the leak is on the heating circuit.

I hope this helps somewhat.

You're better off with a vaillant recommended Engineer in my opinion.

Thank you very much for the detailed response. Funnily enough the error code is now F.22 not F.75.

Dynarod due out on 4th Jan so going to wait until then to see if they can find a leak (hopefully not as topping up every third day). Then will suggest all the ideas thereafter : )

 

[Johns23]

One thing that does seem strange and at first I thought a coincidence but now not so sure…

When the BG engineer left, everything was fine for over a week. I touched the control to check the pressure and it was 1.3 like when he left. The next morning it was 0.7.

Everytime I press the controls to check the pressure, next time I look it’s gone down again. When I don’t check it seems to last much, much longer. It’s been ok for the last 24 hours so thought I’d test. Each time I checked in the last 5 hours it’s gone down .1 bar and just looked again and it now reads 0.8 from 1.3 before my experiment.

Surely that can’t be coincidence yet it makes no sense that simply pressing the radiator icon button twice to check the bar can possibly affect anything!

 

[cjg]

but are you doing it after the boiler has been running, water expands when hot then cools contracts, presure up presure down.

 

[Mr F22]

F22 / low system pressure.
Do you have a boiler manual? As fault codes will be located in the back of the book.

Pushing the button to check the system pressure should not effect that.

As a rule, I allow 0.4 bar rise on the gauge when the heating is on ( the pump on) give or take 0.1 bar.
As cjg said water expands when heated.

For example let's say at rest the boiler reads 1.2 bar and when the heating is on, it goes upto 1.6 bar or 1.7 bar.
Anything higher that 0.7 bar rise ( say 1.2bar to 2bar) will most likely mean your expansion vessel hasn't got the correct charge.

It may well be that you have a slight leak somewhere on the system, causing the low pressure over X amount days.
Or that it just requires topping up the system pressure via the filling loop, to 1.2 bar at rest. Not left on 0.8bar.

 

[Johns23]

Hello

Thanks for the replies. Yes I had taken into account the pressure changes when heating is on but the base pressure level keeps dropping. I’ve had to fill it again today as went down to 0.6 so now back at 1.2 and will be 0.6 in a few days again (sooner if I check on it ).

The expansion vessel was recharged as was flat and they checked it again last time and was fine. Dynarod of the 4th Jan so hopefully some answers then if it is a leak. Meanwhile I’m topping it up so more leaking if there is one for another few weeks

 

[Johns23]

Hello again.

Another thing I’ve noticed … I have the wireless thermostat set at 20 degrees and the whole house was boiling hot. I checked the thermostat which is next to the boiler and it said 20 degrees (it felt way higher) and the upstairs bedroom was 23 degrees and that’s usually colder. The boiler was on and all radiators were pumping and had been for ages and the control panel on the boiler was flashing an egg timer which it keeps doing. I know this is to prevent it from cycling on and off but again I’ve never noticed it before and it seems to be like the boiler should be switching off but isn’t as wrongly believes it’s still at just 20 degrees. If that makes sense?

 

[Mr F22]

Position your wireless room thermostat closer to a radiator/heat source for a more accurate reading. Keeping away from windows and external doorways.
Try turning your thermostat down to 19.

Say the place you leave the room thermostat is in cold area, the heating will stay on longer trying to reach the 20° on the wireless stat. If you position too close to a Radiator it will reach temperature and turn off the heating quicker.

Or try putting the wireless stat in the hot bedroom and see how you get on

Egg timer, engineer to check the filter is clean. Allowing circulation.

I would go for a gas engineer and not dynorod.

Check visually: Filter for a leak, Radiator valves, Visible pipework, External PRV, drain offs etc

 

[Johns23]

Position your wireless room thermostat closer to a radiator/heat source for a more accurate reading. Keeping away from windows and external doorways.
Try turning your thermostat down to 19.

Say the place you leave the room thermostat is in cold area, the heating will stay on longer trying to reach the 20° on the wireless stat. If you position too close to a Radiator it will reach temperature and turn off the heating quicker.

Or try putting the wireless stat in the hot bedroom and see how you get on

Egg timer, engineer to check the filter is clean. Allowing circulation.

I would go for a gas engineer and not dynorod.

Check visually: Filter for a leak, Radiator valves, Visible pipework, External PRV, drain offs etc

Thank you very much for the reply. I will try all of those things as having to top up almost daily now. Have a great Christmas!

 

[Johns23]

So … I was away for a couple of days over Christmas. Topped up boiler pressure before I left to 1.5 expecting to return home to the usual 0.6 bar or F.22 error code. Instead boiler was at 2.8 bar and water had discharged from the PRV.

I checked the filling loop (just read this should be disconnected) and one of the valves had been left open. The other I gave to use grips to open/close as the black handle is broken. Clearly I didn’t line it up correctly to turn it off and although not making any noise, must have been trickling water through still.

My questions are:

1. The valve I use grips for, I can hear water flowing through if I turn it clockwise or anti clockwise. Is this normal or do I need to replace the valve?

2. Is it possible I have contaminated my mains water leaving it open slightly or it flowing water when the valve is turned either way?

Thanks again.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Filling loop needs changing as you shouldn’t have to use grips to turn it off and no you shouldn’t hear water flowing

 

[Johns23]

Update - have now disconnected the filling loop mains end. Another thought - is it possible the pressure loss has been caused by the valve on the flow control end being faulty? Not sure how it could but just a thought as only drops pressure to F.22 levels when not in use?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Need to get the prv changed now as they don’t fully reseal

 

[Johns23]

Filling loop needs changing as you shouldn’t have to use grips to turn it off and no you shouldn’t hear water flowing

Thanks. I’m not sure I can remove the other end without draining the system as think the valve on the filling loop itself is what’s stopping the flow. I’ll double check and take a photo in a bit. For some reason my filling loop is where the old immersion boiler used to be upstairs and not under the combi.