Which Worcester Bosch Boiler For Our Home? Please Help!

[Bazzy]

Hi Bazzy,

If you ask 10 plumbers you will most likely get 10 different boiler models

However, I can safely say that you ant go wrong with Vaillant boilers.

An acreddited Vaillant Installer can supply 10 years of warranty that can be achieved via fitting the Vaillant proctection kit or you can buy it.
I would always go with the protection kit which is a brass magnetic filter to keep the central heating clean.

The aftercare is top notch never had any problem with Vaillant. I can highly recommend them.

The parts inside the green IQ 627 are brass and Stainless steel but not to forget at the end of its life the boiler can be recycled to 85%

The combi storage has the same brass and stainless steel parts.

Me personally I would go with baxi, biasi, ideal but that’s my personal opinion.


Vaillant
Viessman

These are the ones I would go with. Vaillant is market leader so I hope that will answer your question in regards to “ how do Vaillant stack up against ..”

Both viessman or Vaillant are great boilers. If you had the space I probably would choose the green IQ 627 with a cylinder.

The boilers I mentioned are bale to modulate which means these boiler wont use the full amount of kilo watts if they do not require. For instance in the summer you may need 4-5kw to heat the hot water that means you will Safe a lot on your gas bill.

These are very quiet running boilers. My personal heart is with Vaillant but if you ask some other engineers you may get different opinions.

If you want something good ( Vaillant or viessmann).

About the prices I cannot give you an answer as it depends on many factors.
Where you based ?

Hi Matchless Plumb!

Thanks again for the really great info & confirming Valliant have great aftercare service - that really gives peace of mind!
I presume you meant to say that you would NOT personally go with a Baxi/Ideal etc? I know this may sound bad coming from a total neophyte like me but there is something about them that puts me off!

It seems that Valliant & Viessmann are the most highly regarded so will concentrate on these two brands then - as not many have mentioned either ATAG or Intergas. Also if Valliant/Viessmann are more prevalent then it makes me question how much more expensive parts/servicing might be on an ATAG/Intergas if their network is not as big.

I am so grateful I was able to learn about this modulating issue as I had no idea about it & it certainly sounds like it is a very important feature to have!

I am based in NW London & called Valliant - they got in touch & one of their approved installers is coming round this week to assess things.

Do I have to now buy from them if I get a Valliant or can I shop around & get second opinions & compare prices as they say always get 3 quotes - I am happy to pay for a proper qualified & vetted professional but also do not want to pay over the odds! I am very weary of contacting plumbers from my local Gumtree as I have read some horror stories of shady folks using fake credentials & paperwork!

How can I, as a novice determine if any prices quoted are competitive/reasonable?

I went onto the Vallaint website but it seems there are two versions of Eco Plus models - is the 938 the best/top one may I ask? How big is the storage tank in it?

On a couple of other points - I have already bought a brand new Filter - a Fernox Omega - can I have this fitted instead of the older version Spirotech one that Valliant offer as part of their protection kit & still get the 10 years warranty?

Must I also have a Power Flush Done as well to get the full 10 year warranty? Reason I ask, is our Rads are really old as is all our pipework which is under the floorboards & we have solid flooring & I am concerned that a power flush may cause leaks or splits at weak joints at pipes under floorboards etc & that would be a nightmare to deal with. Could I instead, opt for say New Radiators throughout the house & have a chemical clean/gentle flush instead? How much would any installer charge for a power flush anyway?

You have been great so again, I really am deeply grateful & appreciative!

Many Kind Thanks!
Bazzy!

 

[Bazzy]

I love how everyone has all jumped to the conclusion op must go for a system boiler and unvented cylinder. How does anyone know if one is suitable for the house? Let's not forget there is already and has been fitted for a long time a combi boiler that will no where near match the outputs of current models on the market and will be alot cheaper to install than an unvented setup.

Bazzy personally i would say a combi will work fine, the vaillant 843 for example has nearly 18 litres of hot water a minute which is impressive and will be a massive improvement on what you currently have fitted (yours is rated to between 12 and 13.5). May need an upgraded gas feed to what's currently feeding your boiler but that should be easily sorted.

You also mention the worcester highflow 550cdi, these are floor standing combi boilers which have a heat store (basically a mini cylinder in the boiler) which provide great flow rates of up to 25 litres a minute, when you run your hot tap, similar to a combi, the boiler fires up but instead of taking water directly from the plate heat exchanger, you get water from both the plate and the heat store so your able to have a much greater flow rate of hot water. That is however until the heat store is depleted and needs reheating which you then only take hot water from the plate so your flow will be reduced.

It all depends on how much demand you have for hot water, you have 2 bathrooms but how often are both bathrooms used at the same time?

As for boiler brand, most good manufactures now offer good warranties but check reviews on how good the warranties actually are, ideal for example offer up to 12 years but from what I've heard (not personal experience) they will find any get out they can not to fix the boiler under warranty. Baxi are apparently no quible but again that's only what I've heard.

Id get a few local installers to come have a look and see what they say, it's always good to get as many opinions as possible and then do your research as to what you think works best for you.

Hi Craig,

Much thanks to you for the great & helpful info as well - deeply appreciated! As mentioned before, I have no idea if an Unvented System Boiler with a Cylinder will work in our home - I will get the Vallaint Approved Plumber to advise & let you know!

Thanks for confirming that IF a System Boiler/Cylinder is not suitable for our home then a Modern Combi should work fine (what other choice would I really have anyway?!) & for letting me know about the Valliant 843 - I will look into this one too - how does it compare to the Eco Plus 938 with VSmart as recommended? Does it also have the modulating feature as that sounds very beneficial!

Thanks for educating me on the WB 440/550 - so it is like a Valliant Eco Plus 938 which also has a water storage tank but only a bigger one & so it is a bigger washing machine size floor standing model? I am wondering if it might be overkill for our property or is it an option even though it is a WB which seems as a brand to have fallen out of favour with many it seems?

My Mum sadly passed away not so long ago & there were always lots of people in the house spending time with her & so making good/high demand of the hot water but now there are only 3 of us ( for how long, who knows!) so it may not be such an issue if two people cannot shower at the same time tbh BUT, if possible, I would like it where say if someone is taking a shower & a hot water tap or resource is used elsewhere, the water flow at the shower does not drop too much & that it then does not get dangerously scalding hot when it does! Having said that, I do prefer a very strong & powerful showering experience!

I will start looking into local installers as well - as long as they are Gas Registered should they be able to install any brand of boiler then? Do the ones on the approved list from the various brands that they send out to you charge more then?

Thanks for letting me know about possibly needing an upgraded gas feed - what exactly is this so I can check with any installers what we currently have & if it is needed?

Any idea of what for example an Eco Plus 938 / 843 would cost to buy & install?

I would probably get one of those new smart thermostat things like Nest/Hive etc or do I not need one with the Valliant VSmart? Currently, we only have a very old Honeywell manual thermostat with simple round temperature dial.

Just another question - I see that there are installers who seem to only install say one brand of boiler & then there are others who on their website state they can supply & fit many different brands - is it safer/better to go with the former once any brand of boiler has been chosen or as long as they are Gas Safe Registered, should it not matter & go for the one that gives a good balance of both advice & price - not necessarily the very cheapest?

Very Many Thanks!
Bazzy!

 

[Aire]

Hi Craig,

Much thanks to you for the great & helpful info as well - deeply appreciated! As mentioned before, I have no idea if an Unvented System Boiler with a Cylinder will work in our home - I will get the Vallaint Approved Plumber to advise & let you know!

Thanks for confirming that IF a System Boiler/Cylinder is not suitable for our home then a Modern Combi should work fine (what other choice would I really have anyway?!) & for letting me know about the Valliant 843 - I will look into this one too - how does it compare to the Eco Plus 938 with VSmart as recommended? Does it also have the modulating feature as that sounds very beneficial!

Thanks for educating me on the WB 440/550 - so it is like a Valliant Eco Plus 938 which also has a water storage tank but only a bigger one & so it is a bigger washing machine size floor standing model? I am wondering if it might be overkill for our property or is it an option even though it is a WB which seems as a brand to have fallen out of favour with many it seems?

My Mum sadly passed away not so long ago & there were always lots of people in the house spending time with her & so making good/high demand of the hot water but now there are only 3 of us ( for how long, who knows!) so it may not be such an issue if two people cannot shower at the same time tbh BUT, if possible, I would like it where say if someone is taking a shower & a hot water tap or resource is used elsewhere, the water flow at the shower does not drop too much & that it then does not get dangerously scalding hot when it does! Having said that, I do prefer a very strong & powerful showering experience!

I will start looking into local installers as well - as long as they are Gas Registered should they be able to install any brand of boiler then? Do the ones on the approved list from the various brands that they send out to you charge more then?

Thanks for letting me know about possibly needing an upgraded gas feed - what exactly is this so I can check with any installers what we currently have & if it is needed?

Any idea of what for example an Eco Plus 938 / 843 would cost to buy & install?

I would probably get one of those new smart thermostat things like Nest/Hive etc or do I not need one with the Valliant VSmart? Currently, we only have a very old Honeywell manual thermostat with simple round temperature dial.

Just another question - I see that there are installers who seem to only install say one brand of boiler & then there are others who on their website state they can supply & fit many different brands - is it safer/better to go with the former once any brand of boiler has been chosen or as long as they are Gas Safe Registered, should it not matter & go for the one that gives a good balance of both advice & price - not necessarily the very cheapest?

Very Many Thanks!
Bazzy!

In terms of boiler, the 938 and 843 are very similar in outputs with the 938 offering slightly more hot flow rate. Both are fully modulating so you won't use more gas than your house requires and both work with vsmart.


The vsmart isn't required for the boiler but if your looking at hive/nest then you'd be better going for the vsmart as they will work best with your boiler as that's what they're designed for.

As for cost I can't say, you can look at boiler prices online and compare the difference between the two, I couldn't comment on total job cost because id only be guessing and prices up north where I am will differ to those down south.

For your gas size it all depends where the meter is in relation to the boiler. You'll likely have a 22mm supply already your boiler or should be 22mm fairly close to it. This may need upgrading from the meter in 28mm to achieve satisfactory pressure drop across the installation but your installer will advise you against this.

The wb 440/550 is a big washing machine size boiler, basically has a bigger heat store so can offer more flow, also more expensive but as for whether it's overkill comes down to your circumstances, they are generally for heavy hot water demand and like I said personally I think you'll be fine with one of the above mentioned combis. I also wouldn't say Worcester have fallen out of favour, I used to install alot of them but I've since moved to vaillant and just prefer them, that's all.

As for gas fitters, any installer can fit any boiler, most will have their preferred manufacturers to work with and the only difference between an approved and non approved is amount of warranty you get. Vaillant offer 5 years as standard and then either 7 or 10 years depending on mode and fitted by an approved installer.

The only way you'll know if your been charged a fair price is by getting different quotes, if they're all in a similar area you know it's right.

 

[Rob Foster]

Hi All,

We may need to replace our boiler - the OLDER version Worcester Bosch 35Cdi (see images attached)

1. Our home is a 1920's Semi
2. 5 Bedrooms
3. 2 Bathrooms
4. 5 x Large (1800mm) Double Panel Radiators
5. 1 x Large (1800mm) Single Panel Radiator
6. 3 x Medium (1400mm) Double Panel Radiators
7. 2 x Short Height Double Panel 1400mm Radiators
8. 3 x Bathroom Towel Radiators

We had a WB Engineer come round to try & fix the boiler but said parts were no longer available & recommended that we upgrade to the 42Cdi - he said this model will allow use to run as many hot water devices as we wish without one area losing out over another.

After he left, the boiler started leaking again so another WB Engineer came round & he was strongly recommending the 29Cdi Classic (insisted that we choose the Classic version).

Both are highly trained WB Professionals who know their stuff but I am a bit confused as to which one to believe since they both recommended two very different models so am wondering if anyone here can really help me out on which from the WB range is really best for our home?

I was surprised that the 2nd Engineer strongly recommended a much smaller capacity model than the one we currently have as from what little I know, is that one has to either maintain the size you have to ensure good performance or go for as bigger/next model up to allow fro extra headroom so the boiler does not have to work as hard? I may be totally wrong on this as I am a novice hence coming here for advice.

The 1st Engineer may have recommended the 42CDi as he believed that would service the size of our home best & the 2nd one might have recommended the 29Cdi instead as it has been over 15 years since we have had our current boiler & advances in boiler technology in this time might mean that these days a smaller capacity boiler may well be able to do the same job as a bigger one from yester-year - I do not know but I do believe Engineers were being sincere with their advice.

Please can anyone recommend ANY Combi Boiler from the WB Range that would best suit our needs? I do not know how boiler size & capacity affects things like energy use & how it affects bills - I do not want a small boiler that takes longer to do things & hence uses more energy meaning more running & energy costs but am worried that the same might then also apply to getting a much bigger one - i.e. - it uses more energy than actually needed, hence higher costs etc?

Flow rate is important since we have two bathrooms - my kitchen tap delivers about 17L/min & the 29Cdi delivers about 11L/min & the 42Cdi 16L/min if that has any bearing?

Finally, I read somewhere that if one has two bathrooms and/or a bigger property, instead of a Combi Boiler, one should also consider a System Boiler? I have no idea what the latter is & not being technical, get somewhat bemused by all this so can anyone explain what they are & if they might be a better option for us?

Would really welcome & be exceptionally grateful for any help/advice on which WB Boiler is best for our home!

Many Kind Thanks,
Bazzy.

View attachment 35828 View attachment 35829

Why buy a WB there are others you know , but then do,you always buy the same new car from same maker ? Centralheatking

 

[Bazzy]

Why buy a WB there are others you know , but then do,you always buy the same new car from same maker ? Centralheatking

Hi Rob,

You make a very good point!

I have been watching a fair few videos on YouTube about Boilers & like the good folks here who suggested something other than WB, there were many who commented about their distaste for them as well so I am taking good heed of this!

All except one guy from the London Boiler Company who is evangelical about them - comes across as a very nice guy but he is the boss of the company so he would say that I suppose!

The ones I had been very seriously considering after advice from here & reading comments on Youtube were:

Valliant
Viessmann
ATAG
Intergas.

Out of these & after the very kind & helpful info recently given, I focused on Valliant & possibly Viessmann if need be.

Does anyone know how the Viessmann Vitodens 111-W Combi with a 46L Built In Water Tank compare with the Valliant Eco-Plus 938 that has been recommended compare & which might be better for my needs?

I ask as it was the only other Storage Combi I could find from both recommended brands & a 46L Tank seems quite large so does it offer any real & meaningful benefits over the smaller Valliant (18L?) tank?

They do a bigger/better(?) model, the Vitodens 200-W but I do not think this one has the built in water tank even though it is a top model?

Obviously, I would not want sacrifice any far more important aspects like energy & cost savings, the modulating feature, smart connectivity/monitoring etc.

Many Thanks!
Bazzy!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Viessmann 200 is the top of the top no it doesn't include a tank have a look at the 222 for that

So with the 200 you would need a cylinder or go for the combi version

 

[Rob Foster]

Hi Rob,

You make a very good point!

I have been watching a fair few videos on YouTube about Boilers & like the good folks here who suggested something other than WB, there were many who commented about their distaste for them as well so I am taking good heed of this!

All except one guy from the London Boiler Company who is evangelical about them - comes across as a very nice guy but he is the boss of the company so he would say that I suppose!

The ones I had been very seriously considering after advice from here & reading comments on Youtube were:

Valliant
Viessmann
ATAG
Intergas.

Out of these & after the very kind & helpful info recently given, I focused on Valliant & possibly Viessmann if need be.

Does anyone know how the Viessmann Vitodens 111-W Combi with a 46L Built In Water Tank compare with the Valliant Eco-Plus 938 that has been recommended compare & which might be better for my needs?

I ask as it was the only other Storage Combi I could find from both recommended brands & a 46L Tank seems quite large so does it offer any real & meaningful benefits over the smaller Valliant (18L?) tank?

They do a bigger/better(?) model, the Vitodens 200-W but I do not think this one has the built in water tank even though it is a top model?

Obviously, I would not want sacrifice any far more important aspects like energy & cost savings, the modulating feature, smart connectivity/monitoring etc.

Many Thanks!
Bazzy!

ATAG....no contest
Valiant ...2nd choice
My choice is driven by manufacturer and good inside technical info
Centralheatking

 

[Old Account]

Hi Matchless Plumb!

Thanks again for the really great info & confirming Valliant have great aftercare service - that really gives peace of mind!
I presume you meant to say that you would NOT personally go with a Baxi/Ideal etc? I know this may sound bad coming from a total neophyte like me but there is something about them that puts me off!

It seems that Valliant & Viessmann are the most highly regarded so will concentrate on these two brands then - as not many have mentioned either ATAG or Intergas. Also if Valliant/Viessmann are more prevalent then it makes me question how much more expensive parts/servicing might be on an ATAG/Intergas if their network is not as big.

I am so grateful I was able to learn about this modulating issue as I had no idea about it & it certainly sounds like it is a very important feature to have!

I am based in NW London & called Valliant - they got in touch & one of their approved installers is coming round this week to assess things.

Do I have to now buy from them if I get a Valliant or can I shop around & get second opinions & compare prices as they say always get 3 quotes - I am happy to pay for a proper qualified & vetted professional but also do not want to pay over the odds! I am very weary of contacting plumbers from my local Gumtree as I have read some horror stories of shady folks using fake credentials & paperwork!

How can I, as a novice determine if any prices quoted are competitive/reasonable?

I went onto the Vallaint website but it seems there are two versions of Eco Plus models - is the 938 the best/top one may I ask? How big is the storage tank in it?

On a couple of other points - I have already bought a brand new Filter - a Fernox Omega - can I have this fitted instead of the older version Spirotech one that Valliant offer as part of their protection kit & still get the 10 years warranty?

Must I also have a Power Flush Done as well to get the full 10 year warranty? Reason I ask, is our Rads are really old as is all our pipework which is under the floorboards & we have solid flooring & I am concerned that a power flush may cause leaks or splits at weak joints at pipes under floorboards etc & that would be a nightmare to deal with. Could I instead, opt for say New Radiators throughout the house & have a chemical clean/gentle flush instead? How much would any installer charge for a power flush anyway?

You have been great so again, I really am deeply grateful & appreciative!

Many Kind Thanks!
Bazzy!

Hello Bazzy,

I was trying to say I would not go with any of the boilers like ideal, biasi, baxi, feroli, glowworm etc.. my heart is with Vaillant and viessmann in uk.

Atag is a bad choice to be fair but as mentioned my heart is with Vaillant and for your property all you need is A - Vaillant ecotec plus 938 with up to 20 litres of hot water demand. B- Vaillant uniSTORE and the exclusive green IQ 627 which is top notch.

I am based in London too and if you are willing to have a chat in person about the boiler you can let me know. I assume you will not install the boiler before Christmas but early next year ?

Do not contact plumbers via gumtre, what I have seen and heard is not really great.
If I was you I would use the spirotech protection kit as you have to pay either way for the 3 more years it’s either via the filter ( which provides long warrantyies too ) or you could buy the extended warranty.

You do not have to flush but again it depends on your system how dirty it really is. I would definitely do a chemical flush if you are concerned about your pipeworks. If I was you again, I would want the engineer supply and install the boiler as he will know best what’s required and what he will need. If something is missing he could be charging you ...

You can’t go wrong with the Vaillant boilers at all. Obviously the engineer who you are hiring he has to make sure that the boiler he is recommending you is capable of supplying enough hot water for two showers.

Regards

Ron

 

[rpm]

Is Bazzy the house owner or the caretaker? Post#3 confuses the issue.

 

[Bazzy]

Hello Bazzy,

I was trying to say I would not go with any of the boilers like ideal, biasi, baxi, feroli, glowworm etc.. my heart is with Vaillant and viessmann in uk.

Atag is a bad choice to be fair but as mentioned my heart is with Vaillant and for your property all you need is A - Vaillant ecotec plus 938 with up to 20 litres of hot water demand. B- Vaillant uniSTORE and the exclusive green IQ 627 which is top notch.

I am based in London too and if you are willing to have a chat in person about the boiler you can let me know. I assume you will not install the boiler before Christmas but early next year ?

Do not contact plumbers via gumtre, what I have seen and heard is not really great.
If I was you I would use the spirotech protection kit as you have to pay either way for the 3 more years it’s either via the filter ( which provides long warrantyies too ) or you could buy the extended warranty.

You do not have to flush but again it depends on your system how dirty it really is. I would definitely do a chemical flush if you are concerned about your pipeworks. If I was you again, I would want the e orngineer supply and install the boiler as he will know best what’s required and what he will need. If something is missing he could be charging you .

You can’t go wrong with the Vaillant boilers at all. Obviously the engineer who you are hiring he has to make sure that the boiler he is recommending you is capable of supplying enough hot water for two showers.

Regards

Ron

Hi Ron,

All points clearly heard & understood - no way would I consider some one from Gumtree either!

I take it you mean't to say ATAG is "Not" a bad choice over is one?!!

I am quite worried about doing a powerflush tbh 0ur pipework has not been treated in a very long time & if any joints/seals give way under all the floorboards, we would be in real trouble but again, my true understanding of power-flushing is limited!

I would rather take out each Radiator & flush it manually with a hose in the garden whilst also doing a thorough chemical clean of the pipework that you mentioned. Our Rads bar a few are quite old - approaching 15-18 years so may even consider replacing them with more modern, efficient ones if that is a good option.

Where in London are you may I ask - I am in NW London - is that doable for you? You are more than welcome to come round & take a look & we can have a chat - that would be great! can you supply & fit everything once you have had a chance to take a look?

Pity about being only offered the Spirotech Filters - I really wanted to use the Fernox Omega I already purchased - I really do not like the Spirotech ones after seeing videos of how very poorly they performed! How much do they want/charge for their Spirotech Filter to get the extra warranty?

Feel free to get in touch if allowed - most welcome!

Many Kind Thanks!