Best option for upgrade

[JB1992]

Hi all, we moved into our house 2 weeks ago. Current it has a 117L vented cylinder which has 2 tanks in the loft. Also an old boiler. Approx 22 years old. I am wanting to replace the system as we are renovating the house. I was advised not to get a combi due to having 2 bathrooms with mixer showers. We do like a powerful shower and it's currently not great. I have been told unvented conversion is the way to go but my incoming mains pressure is 14L. Another option I have been advised by British gas is to pressurised the central heating, new system boiler and put in 180L vented cylinder with a pump to boost mains. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Josh

 

[ShaunCorbs]

i would ring the water board up and ask them whats the pressure and flow in the street

and then come back to us

my opinion unvented system depending on the water board

 

[Best]

Yes, that is always an option to pressurise (seal) a heat only boiler and use a vented hot cylinder with a pump to supply shower mixers and possibly more.
But I would make sure you first check properly what your pressure and flow rates are on your incoming mains. If not suitable for unvented cylinder, then can the mains pipe be upgraded in size to help? Need water authority to confirm.
When checking your actual flow rates, you really need an open pipe rather than an outside tap which will restrict flow, sometimes greatly due also to check valves inside some taps

 

[JB1992]

Thanks both. I will contact United utilities to try and find out. British gas used some form of cup to measure it at the kitchen sink. My other option I'm guessing is to use an electric shower but I'm not a huge fan of them. British Gas have quoted £3600 for the work. Including a Worcester 30i system boiler. Whereas local plumbers have quoted £2500 for unvented systems and ideal logic 24kw system boilers.

 

[JB1992]

Also they said it was 14ltr a minute at 1 bar...

 

[king of pipes]

Your incoming pressure and flow is far to low for unvented, you will need 3bar and 20+ litres a minute to supply your needs if this can be improved on either by your utilities company or by renewing you incoming supply then it would be worth considering, if not then I would go with the British gas idea I have done one recently similar and it worked out well the prices you have been quoted seem very reasonable £2500 seems to cheap to be honest boiler , flue ,cylinder, shower pump, zone valves, programmer , cylinder stat , room thermostat , bypass valve, Wessex flange for shower pump , pipe , fittings , insulation, if not replacing the existing radiators the valves will need upgrading,a chemical clean and flush or jet flush,electrical work , making good I would request a break down from each contractor of what your getting for what you have been quoted . Cheers kop

 

[Rob Foster]

I thought 1 bar was below the water standard for supply to domestic properties - and the utility will quote their best so this is real bad

 

[JB1992]

Ok all so the Mrs won't even let me entertain the waterboard or independent digging up for a new pipe...so I'm guessing only option is to fit in a new system boiler, bigger vented cylinder and possibly a dual shower pump?

Thanks in advance.

Josh

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Any reason why as tbh you probably will be doing it down the line eg 5-10 years

 

[JB1992]

Any reason why as tbh you probably will be doing it down the line eg 5-10 years

She just wants to get on with doing the house as currently bathroom and ensuite are on hold. Why would we be doing this again?

Cheers

 

[king of pipes]

Do it once do it right ! how I have advised either will give a good system . Cheers kop

 

[Best]

Typical woman, - just wants everything finished no matter what the consequences.

 

[JB1992]

Do it once do it right ! how I have advised either will give a good system . Cheers kop

Thanks KOP. I know the Cylinder change will be straightforward and the boiler swap but in terms of pressurising the Radiators how is this done when the tank is removed? I will get in touch with local installers to get quotes etc.

In terms of boilers I have been looking at Baxi Megaflo/Ideal logic+ and Worcester. Any recommendations?

Cheers

 

[king of pipes]

Ideal Logic + HEAT ONLY SYSTEM BOILER would work well reasonably priced I have fitted quite a few no problems at all. Cheers kop

 

[JB1992]

Heat only? What's the difference between that and a system boiler? Also I've been quoted £950 labour for all the works. Does that sound about right?

 

[Best]

Heat only? What's the difference between that and a system boiler? Also I've been quoted £950 labour for all the works. Does that sound about right?

Heat only boilers can be System (all sealed system components, plus pump) or a non system boiler.
Combi boilers (that do radiators and heat water within the boiler) are different

 

[king of pipes]

A Heat only boiler will be open vented so you will keep your small feed and expansion tank in the loft and the pressures will remain equal across the system , A system boiler contains the system pump, a expansion vessel and are designed to work on a sealed type system which will need filling manually through a filling loop from the mains for the heating for the radiators and coil in the new Hot water cylinder either will be acceptable , £950 labour is a good price but as i have said get a breakdown from your installer what you are actually getting for your money . Best of luck kop

 

[JB1992]

A Heat only boiler will be open vented so you will keep your small feed and expansion tank in the loft and the pressures will remain equal across the system , A system boiler contains the system pump, a expansion vessel and are designed to work on a sealed type system which will need filling manually through a filling loop from the mains for the heating for the radiators and coil in the new Hot water cylinder either will be acceptable , £950 labour is a good price but as i have said get a breakdown from your installer what you are actually getting for your money . Best of luck kop

Yeah, British Gas Advised System boiler and having done with the expansion in the loft. £950 labour is price for ripping out old boiler, fitting new one, fitting in a new cylinder in place of the old, and sealing the system. Also been quoted £550 labour to fit 3 brand new radiators downstairs.

 

[king of pipes]

if your happy with that then go with it , if i was doing it you would get all the rad valves changed and all new controls , jet flush the system, new boiler, cylinder, mag filter but it all comes at a cost of course . kop

 

[JB1992]

if your happy with that then go with it , if i was doing it you would get all the rad valves changed and all new controls , jet flush the system, new boiler, cylinder, mag filter but it all comes at a cost of course . kop

Yeah he is fitting a mag filter. I want all the valves changing anyway, I have a nest thermostat which he is fitting. All my valves are non trv at the moment so will ask him to change. I'll also ask about powerflush/chem clean. What should I pay labour wise per rad? And for the clean? Also I'm looking at ideal logic+ 30kw system. Have you got any boiler recommendations? Thanks KOP.

 

[king of pipes]

£100 a radiator at a guesstimate £300 - £400 for the jet flush Ideal logic + is a good little boiler fitted my fair share with no issues . Kop

 

[JB1992]

Thanks for replies. Ideal Logic+ Seems best in terms of pricepoint. I looked at the Ideal Logic Max and the Vogue too. Doesn't seem worth paying the extra for a Baxi or Worcester Bosch.