close couple leak (not from doughnut)

[Darren Birkett]

Apologies if this is too basic a question, but seems the right place to ask for some advice and hope one of you experts can help.

I have a topravit close coupled compact toilet, and recently replaced the doughnut (actually, I put a doughnut in because my plumber had just dumped a load of plumbers mate where the doughnut should be and it had started to rot - is this normal??)

Anyway, since I replaced the doughnut, I'm getting a drip from one of the wingnuts that connects the cistern to the pan. The screw actually goes all the way into the cistern (as opposed to what seems to be the more normal way of having a close coupling kit with a big metal 'wing' to which the screws are attached). I'm wondering what might need to be replaced here, as it seems to be a little more difficult than my doughnut installation job. I'm hoping maybe just a washer or rubber seal or something? But even that means getting to the screw inside the cistern which looks awkward.

It's definitely not the doughnut, as it leaks all the time and I've pinned the leak point to this particular wingnut/side.

As you can tell, I'm not a plumber, but thanks for any help you may be able to offer!

mancdaz

 

[Reg Man]

Whats happening is, the clamp with the securing bolts is fixed through the siphon back nut on the bottom of the cistern. When you are tightening the cistern on to the WC basin, it is stressing the siphon joint on the cistern, causing it to leak.

Solution: remake the siphon joint, May be dry everthing and use a silicone base sealant to help. use the dougnut washer between cistern and WC, but try not to overtighten.

 

[Spike295]

Its lazer bolts you have, go thru the cistern & fix to the wc, not a fixing plate as mentioned above.
Remove the cistern, remove the bolts and dry them & the holes. Re-insert the bolts into the cistern & fill the hole where the bolts are poking thru with silicone, secure with the nuts & washers, remove excess silicone & refit cistern, renew doughnut if it looks mishaped.

 

[WaterTight]

You may need to take out syphon to remove bolts. When replacing repeat above proceedure with syphon washer.
Leave for 15 mins to allow silicone to skin over before refilling.

Never knew they were called lazer bolts! I've been going into merchants asking for "the fixing kit that fixes a cistern to a pan where the bolts go through the cistern" for years without anyone ever telling me what the bleeding things are called.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

and if all of the above fails hit it with a hammer,god i hate repairing cisterns

 

[Spike295]

You could if you wanted remove, dry & re-insert the syphon as Watertight mentioned, but only use silicone from the underside to fill the gap between the syphon threads & cistern wall, DO NOT use silicone on the rubber washer itself as this will cause the washer to spread when tightening.

 

[Darren Birkett]

Thanks for all the replies.

So definitely silicone and not plumbers mate?

Just to clarify so I understand fully...The laser bolts go through the cistern and emerge on the underside. Inside the cistern the bolts screw through what looks like both a rubber and a plastic washer. Should I replace these too? What does the bolt actually screw to when you screw it back into the cistern, given that the wingnuts that are used to attach it to the pan are obviously not in place yet?

 

[Spike295]

Yes use silicone & not plumbers mate. Plumbers mate is good for nothing. Inspect the rubber washers on the lazer bolts & renew if you feel they need it, but they should be ok. The lazer bolts go thru the cistern with a washer & rubber washer inside the cistern. Underneatth the cistern is another washer & a 10mm nut securing the bolts. The bolts then fit thru the holes in the wc pan & are secured by the wingnuts. Take note that some cisterns do not have the 10mm nuts & washers under the cistern, you'll have to strip down & see.

 

[Darren Birkett]

I did wonder about the plumbers mate as, like I said, my plumber had actually 'made' a doughnut out of it and it was hell to get off.

I'm going to try the fix this weekend - sounds like it should be ok, though a bit worried about removing the syphon too.

One other related question - since I fitted the doughnut, the push button sits too high on the cistern lid, even when screwed fully in. It's as though the entire assembly now sits about 2cm too high, but there's no way I could have done this when I fitted the doughnut (could I??)

 

[Spike295]

If after you strip it down & the syphon nut seems tight & washer looks ok, no movement in it, then leave it. Renewing the doughnut will have no affect on the height of the push button. Take a few pics if you can.

 

[royston]

sounds like you need a plumber, what area are you ? !!

 

[WaterTight]

DO NOT use silicone on the rubber washer itself as this will cause the washer to spread when tightening.

I've never had any problems doing it that way. Probably because, slightly spread washer or not, once cured the silicone aint letting no water past. But despite never having had a problem I'm going to worry about that eventuality when I next do one now.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i agree silicon makes washers slip out under preasure despite some one further up this thread claiming its no good plumbers mate is best for these jobs esecially on flush pipe internal cones what is useless is the swan brand of mate sticks to bugger all youve got to use the evostic one
silicon is good if youve time to let it set but whose got 24 hours to waste

 

[kay-jay]

you shouldn't need to remove the syphon!


simply isolate the water, flush the bog, sponge out any remaining water from cistern, undo the nuts that secure the cistern to the pan. dry base of cistern inside and out with bog roll. undo and dry the lazer bolt and its washer etc, then replace it using a bead of silicone around the coned ridge. tighten up from below (not too tight) then reassemble , turn water back on, check for soundness but you should be ok.

KJ

 

[Darren Birkett]

Sorry it's the inlet valve/assembly that looks like it's in the way of the bolt, not the syphon. I'll try and get to it without having to remove anything! Think I need one of those snake screwdrivers

 

[royston]

As been said completely remove cistern, remove syphon, inlet vale, then through bolts. Dry everything properly, inside of cistern and all parts and washers. Then as ive done hundreds of times and as said above, smear a bead of silicon under washer on the through bolts, push in and underneath where it goes through cistern squirt some into the hole round the bolt. Slide washer on then tighten, but dont over-tighten. Do the same with the inlet valve and syphon but you should only need to bead silicon under the washer. Again do not over tighten. Now check the close couple washer (the big one that goes between pan and cistern) and check condition. Must say i always replace them but its your call. Where the washer sits onto pan id put a bead of silicon on the pan to. Push washer onto the syphon threads and sit cistern onto pan. Tighten through bolts back up, hand tight should be good. Screw back, connect water pipe and away you go. I always do them this way with good results.

 

[Darren Birkett]

Just wanted to say thanks to everybody for their help. I took everything out apart from the inlet assembly, and reassembled with silicon at each joint. No replaced parts, and no more leaks. Job done! Thank-you!

Cheers
Darren