Help me please help me!

[secret squirrel]

Today, I had to fit a new toilet, supplied by the customer.

Old toilet out and adjusted pipe work no problem,

New toilet into position and fits Woo Hoo!

Now, fitted all the bits and bob to the new cistern and was going great guns,

AS soon as I fitted the doughnut washer screwed it down it leaked,

took it all apart re- did it, leak stopped, 10 mins later leaked again,

took it all apart, used silicone to hold washer into place, re- fitted it, no leak then leak.

replaced doughnut washer with a new one, leaked..........this went on and on and on.

Everytime, I thought I'd done it 10 minutes later it leaked.

I tried different tensions on the screws, this helped a little. The floor is a little uneven but not excessive but the tiling is awful, the tiler must have had a beer or three.

Did I miss something?

Any other solutions?

what else could I have done?

Thank you all in advance

 

[Ch3nKo]

can you take the cistern off of the pan fill it with water and leave it stood up somewhere for half an hour to check there is no crack in the cistern or maybe you could see where this water is coming from as it may not be the donut washer

 

[secret squirrel]

If I get a call back (expecting it) That is what I will do, I had become blinded by the doughnut washer (now I'm even more fed up with myself) and hadn't considered the possibility of something else.......

 

[Winston]

get a proper donut washer I find the ones suppied with the wc tend to be pants. Always put washer on the cistern to avoid it slipping down, and tighten gently and evenly.

 

[migoplumber]

my own posh toilet, when installed leaked. after a morning of rebuilding the cistern, i discovered it was the pan itself. turned upside found the 2 holes used for manufacturing the thing were leaking. filled them with silicone.

shaun

 

[newbie1]

had my toilet in and out about ten times and had more silicon than you could believe then took kit out and found tiny hairline crack that spat water when i flushed

 

[Puddle]

Hi secret squirral
Sorry to hear about your problem
Well it could be the cistern but as you keep removing cistern and remaking joint pursume the leak is running down locking nuts or between cistern and pan
If this is the case I would think the problem is the plastic backing nut not locking on the syphon thread correctly.Most lightly due to a cheap syphon,so when you tighten nuts,pressure loosens joint causing small leak.I would buy your own syphon and fit,then shout at the customer{after you have been paid )

 

[stevetheplumber]

if its the type with the bolts thru the cysten rather than the old plate id check these as well i find silicon to lubricatingcausing the washer to slip and so use plumbers mate round them a lot of these type now come with just one nut meaning you have to empty the cysten every time you remove it

 

[Bernie2]

I usually find a rubber washer under the syphon inside the cistern helps, but make sure its dry, other wise if you get any sort of wet or lubricant on it, it just squeezes out. On really bad ones a bit of Plumbers Mait on the bottom of the syphon, may help.

Company's I have worked for would be horrified or perhaps even sack you for using silicon sealant as a water seal.

Then another washer under the cistern, then the bolt retaining plate then the back nut with a bit of silicon grease on it to make it run up the threads nice and easy.

The stick a decent donut on over the back nut. Sit cistern on pan not forgetting the bolts, once again a bit of silicon grease on the threads helps. The run then up until cistern is level and pushing gently down on the cistern keeping it square tighten the nuts evenly a quarter turn at a time if it wants it.

Usually works.

 

[traineedrip]

check the cistern is square on the doughnut and cant move. (im sure you already have)

 

[pauls]

i fitted a new toilet the other month it was all fitted nicely then in the kitchen water was dripping through the ceiling went back checked joints all fine i just happend to lean on the pan and water came out.

took it out and found a hairline crack underneeth took it back to shop changed it only to find another crack 3 toilets untill we found one that was ok.

 

[Bernie2]

Somebody was wondering why might you get the sack for using Silicon sealant as a leak sealer?

Well its not its intended use, for one thing.

Many Silicon sealants are not for use in a constantly submerged water environment which an internal cistern bottom would be or a pressurised environment which it would be when you flush the toilet

Silicons also come in different types i.e. High to Low modulus and different curing types and unless they are matched to the materials they don't always stick to them.

On a cistern you would be expecting it to stick to the china of the cistern as well as either the pvc of the syphon or the rubber of the syphon to cistern washer or both.

Another is, that it could void an appliance manufacturers guarantees if the appliance never specifically said to use Silicon as a sealant.

In short on a smallish job, say of about 300 houses or so. Not only would the added cost of sealant add a couple of hundred or even thousands on to the overall cost of the job, which if it wasn't specified there was no need for.

It may also void manufacturers guarantees on hundreds of wc suites.

In short if it doesn't say use it, don't unless cleared to do so.

If you have a clerk of works knocking about, he or she will probably go ballistic, if they found you had used Silicon sealant to stop a leak, instead of doing things the manufacturers way.
After all they are not daft, they probably know many of the leak sealing tricks you do, and Silicon is an old trick now.

If it leaks after you have done everything the approved way, then it's the manufacturers problem and if it does damage they can claim against the manufacturer, but only if you have done things the correct way.

If its proved that the work was done incorrectly then your company has to pay. So imagine what you may have to pay for leaks in perhaps all 300 houses?

And if they spot great dollops of Silicon all over the place, what is the first thing they will probably think?
What would you think if you had a leak and somebody had used Silicone instead of repairing it properly?

That is why you might get the sack.

In the real world, company's are very cagey about doing things in other than approved ways, in case they get sued. Part of the idea of following Bldg Regs, Manufacturers instructions, British Standards and many more, is to prove you have done things right as far as humanly possible and you can prove in court you did, by producing the relevant fitting instructions or approved documents.

You can't do things your own way unless you can prove its an acceptable way and that can cost shed loads of money to do.

I have often been asked to prove it! Thats why I know!

And even working for yourself, don't suppose for a minute you won't get a customer take you to court where you will have to prove you did things according to approved ways of doing things. Its a customers right to be able to sue you if they think you have done things wrong.

Don't get me wrong many things you can get to work in loads of different ways its just that you might be liable for damages if they don't or you can;t prove you used acceptable ways to do it.

So on site work, its a case of do it by the book, if it leaks, pass it along the line, first to your boss then he will pass it to the manufacturer.

Its simple really: If you sold a wc suite and found out it had been fitted wrong and it leaked, would you pay for any damage it caused or say it was their own fault for not fitting it the right way?

 

[secret squirrel]

Makes a lot of sense, thanks

 

[Phil]

Interesting reading Bernie2.

I'm involved in putting right a cowboy bathroom at the moment, I swear if I found the guy that installed it (he's done a runner) and opened up the back of his van I'd find nothing but racks and racks of cheap clear silicone!!

He'd used it on everything and I do mean everything, he was messy with it aswell.

 

[NickH]

I've had a similar problem Squirrel and it was a hairline crack in the dump valve body just above the threaded section, you couldn't see it when the valve was off but when you tightened the back nut it pulled the crack open and it leaked.

 

[Winston]

Oh forgot to mention when I did the quote agreed for the payment half by cheque on completion then for second cheque 4 weeks later to help with spreading the cost out for him!

 

[Bernie2]

Don't forget though, Regs can work in your favour as well.

If somebody asks why a job costs so much. Show them the Water Regs about proper clipping, double check valves and the like.

That way you don't look like a Plumber on the make, they sometime might think you are after watching all those telly programs about Plumbers.

Its also a way to show people you know what your doing.

 

[Phil]

You've added that on the wrong thread Winston but we get the message.

I take it you'll not be going back round there in a hurry!!