Imported Pipe Fittings - any dangers?

[Plumpplumber]

I see BES list a range of imported pipe fittings which conform to two British Standards but are apparently unmarked as such and wouldn't have WRAS approval. https://www.bes.co.uk/products/143c.asp
Are these acceptable to use? For potable and non potable water or not at all?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Thousands are used every day. Some makes are absolutely fine. Some are not.

BES is a respectable organisation with a professional purchasing team, so I would imagine that they will be good quality.

There is no regulatory barrier to using them, although certain contracts may specify particular approvals.

 

[Plumpplumber]

Cheers! Just wondered if there was any risk for potable water but obviously not.

 

[oz-plumber]

Just check you insurance policy / cover.

You may not be covered for damage caused if you use non approved fittings.

 

[Stigster]

I buy many of these imported fittings for use in our training workshop, for our apprentices to install as it saves a great deal of money when compared with kitemarked stuff. I have had a few issues, the main one being 22x22x15 Tees sometimes missing the shoulder on the branch so it's possible to push the 15mm tube all the way in thus blocking the 22mm run.

The other issue is that the compression fitting nuts can get out of round and I've even had a couple split. I would not use the compression fittings on a job for a customer.

With the End Feed stuff, I've only had the issue with the missing shoulder on those Tees. The rest of the EF range have been absolutely fine in quality and I'm happy to use them.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

I think this is a good question.

I also noticed that some solder ring fittings did not carry the engraved 'fish' type symbol which can be seen in this Yorkshire brochure:

http://www.trademate.co.uk/ProductExtra/PEG0001/yorkshire.pdf

The symbol confirms to any competent clerk of works or water regulations inspector that the fittings are lead free. Without the symbol, the inspectors may ask for a section of fitting and pipe to be sent off for analysis - I would not like to be the one who is responsible for 500 houses being plumbed out with fittings which contain lead or other alloys which are not WRAS approved.

However, for training purposes, I do not see a problem, provided a point is made to show students that solder ring fittings are stamped with the fish symbol, this must be identified before using the fitting in England.

 

[Ray Stafford]

fish symbol, this must be identified before using the fitting in England.

Hi Clanger

Can you point me to the regulation that specificies this? (Not the regulation about lead free solder for potable water systems, I mean the wording that gives regulatory status to that symbol.)

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Hi Clanger

Can you point me to the regulation that specificies this? (Not the regulation about lead free solder for potable water systems, I mean the wording that gives regulatory status to that symbol.)

Thanks

I do not know of any regulatory standard that specifies that fittings have to be stamped to indicate they are lead free, but how would any installer, clerk of works or inspector know they are dealing with fittings which are listed in fittings and materials directory?

WRAS state the following in regard to fittings: https://www.wras.co.uk/approvals/products_and_materials_directory/guide_to_materials_directory/

Hence, plumbers must have some way of making sure their fittings are fit for purpose:

….‘no material or substance, either alone or in combination with any other material or substance or with the contents of any water fitting of which it forms a part, which causes or is likely to cause contamination of water shall be used in the construction, installation, renewal, repair or replacement of any water fitting which conveys or receives, or may convey or receive, water supplied for domestic or food production purposes.’ ….

This issue also stands for brass fittings. In my part of the country we have soft water and this affects brass fittings (the zinc is leached out of the alloy making it porous), hence I make sure that the fittings I use (especially on the top of hot water cylinders, because dezincification is accelerated by heat) are DZR or Bronze (gun-metal) and are stamped as such with CR (corrosion resistant). It could be argued that non-DZR brass fittings, installed on hot water systems, may contaminate the water supply with zinc salt, hence this would contravene the above regulation.

The bottom line is that merchants may be legitimate in selling an unapproved fitting, valve or appliance, but the onus is on the plumber to select materials/appliances that are fit for purpose and compliant.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

That symbol is Yorkshire logo for 'Yorkshire Potable" it isn't anything regulatory. I think there has been a case of miscommunication somewhere

 

[Ray Stafford]

I do not know of any regulatory standard that specifies that fittings have to be stamped to indicate they are lead free, but how would any installer, clerk of works or inspector know they are dealing with fittings which are listed in fittings and materials directory?

WRAS state the following in regard to fittings: https://www.wras.co.uk/approvals/products_and_materials_directory/guide_to_materials_directory/

Hence, plumbers must have some way of making sure their fittings are fit for purpose:

….‘no material or substance, either alone or in combination with any other material or substance or with the contents of any water fitting of which it forms a part, which causes or is likely to cause contamination of water shall be used in the construction, installation, renewal, repair or replacement of any water fitting which conveys or receives, or may convey or receive, water supplied for domestic or food production purposes.’ ….

This issue also stands for brass fittings. In my part of the country we have soft water and this affects brass fittings (the zinc is leached out of the alloy making it porous), hence I make sure that the fittings I use (especially on the top of hot water cylinders, because dezincification is accelerated by heat) are DZR or Bronze (gun-metal) and are stamped as such with CR (corrosion resistant). It could be argued that non-DZR brass fittings, installed on hot water systems, may contaminate the water supply with zinc salt, hence this would contravene the above regulation.

The bottom line is that merchants may be legitimate in selling an unapproved fitting, valve or appliance, but the onus is on the plumber to select materials/appliances that are fit for purpose and compliant.

I'm not arguing with any of that, although I would point out that there are lots of ways of establishing that a product meets regulatory requirements other than WRAS approval, about which I have some cynical reservations.

My question was about that specific symbol, which I thought was a commercial brand trademark, rather than a regulatory mark. I might be wrong though - its been known!

 

[AWheating]

as with many Clerks of work, they pull stuff out of there beehinds all the time.

 

[Plumpplumber]

Just check you insurance policy / cover.

You may not be covered for damage caused if you use non approved fittings.

I'm a DIYer doing a job for my sister - if there's any damage caused I'll have to face something worse than an insurance company.........:33:

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I'm a DIYer doing a job for my sister - if there's any damage caused I'll have to face something worse than an insurance company.........:33:

as long as there wras approved your fine prob made in the same place as the york ones