Discuss Nightmare customer - advice please in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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Thom2014

Hi Guys,

Would really appreciate your advice on this one.

My husband and I run a p & h company. We've got a really difficult customer. I'll try and be brief cos its a bit long winded.

Updated a heating system including new TRVs to 2 rads.
Invoiced upon completion of work. Didnt hear anything for 8 days. Customer then called to say that she wasnt happy with angle of TRVS. They were fitted fine, just not happy.
That night 11.15 p.m. got a call to say major leak from the TRV, hubby went over within 7/8 minutes and stopped leak. Then spewnt some time using a Vax to get the water up, moving all furniture out of the room.
When he got to her house, she was standing at the front door with her neighbour just chatting. Not upset, crying etc Stangely, she had done nothing to try and smother the leak ie bowl, towel over it, what youd expect someone with a leak to do automatically. She also had her neighbours Vax machine already in the hallway!

We think shes either tried to cause a small leak to either delay payment, or caused a massive one cos she wants new carpets, money for stress etc.

Anyway, because we didnt know exactly caused the leak, we decided that as a goodwill gesture, we'd help as much as poss. Our friend used his industrial carpet cleaning stuff to get more water out of carpet. At her request, he also later cleaned the carpets (they didnt need it).

We also lent a dehumidifier which she wont return (the leak was nearly 2 and half months ago!) and my friend (carpet cleaner) lent a large fan. She has returned that.

Within a couple of days, she had painted the walls except the bit at the bottom where the water had seaped up. She says she now has a flaking patch. The bit of the wall shes referring to was behind furniture - maybe it was there before and she just didnt know! The house is 500+ years old.

On the night of the leak, we also had a friend request from her on facebook. We also discovered that immediately after hed left that night, she had given a commentary on what had happened including photos of my husband sorting the leak. He didnt know that she was taking photos!!

She's also now got a bee in her bonnet about the guy who fitted the TRV not being gas safe (he did it, hubby checked it!). She wants details of his qualifications! You dont need to be gas safe to fit a TRV!

She says that she couldnt use the room for a month (it took 3 days to dry when we had our carpets cleaned). The furniture was stored in a room in her house that she said she didnt use but now says that she could have people over because of the situation.

Where we are now is that she wont pay but wont say exactly why. Shes using delay tactics all the time. Its only £900 for gods sake, if she hasnt got it, id rather she just said!

Id really appreciate your thoughts on this. Please be nice, I'm so angry and frustrated with this situation.
 
Write to her, explain you think you've been reasonable and give her 7 days to either pay up or give very specific detail which you will pass to your Solicitor as to why she will not pay up and return any loaned equipment.
 
First thing I would do on discovering a leak is to isolate, then get bowls, buckets, towels, etc. Funny that she didn't. Sounds like a bit of an @r$£ to me! Advice from snowhead looks sound. Good luck!
 
She's being an idiot :(, lots of them about unfortunately :mad2:
 
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Tbh I dont have a lot of sympathy. Much of this situation is of your own making. I would hazardous a guess that somebody fiddled with the trv if the leak happened the same night as the earlier complaint. It would be hard for a new trv to generate a big leak on its own after 8 days.

Needed to be tougher with her from day 1. Put everything in writing but I think youve just played into her hands.

Maybe not what you want to hear but you say its now two and a half months since the leak. Lesson learnt for next time.
 
Hi Guys,

Would really appreciate your advice on this one.

My husband and I run a p & h company. We've got a really difficult customer. I'll try and be brief cos its a bit long winded.

Updated a heating system including new TRVs to 2 rads.
Invoiced upon completion of work. Didnt hear anything for 8 days. Customer then called to say that she wasnt happy with angle of TRVS. They were fitted fine, just not happy.
That night 11.15 p.m. got a call to say major leak from the TRV, hubby went over within 7/8 minutes and stopped leak. Then spewnt some time using a Vax to get the water up, moving all furniture out of the room.
When he got to her house, she was standing at the front door with her neighbour just chatting. Not upset, crying etc Stangely, she had done nothing to try and smother the leak ie bowl, towel over it, what youd expect someone with a leak to do automatically. She also had her neighbours Vax machine already in the hallway!

We think shes either tried to cause a small leak to either delay payment, or caused a massive one cos she wants new carpets, money for stress etc.

Anyway, because we didnt know exactly caused the leak, we decided that as a goodwill gesture, we'd help as much as poss. Our friend used his industrial carpet cleaning stuff to get more water out of carpet. At her request, he also later cleaned the carpets (they didnt need it).

We also lent a dehumidifier which she wont return (the leak was nearly 2 and half months ago!) and my friend (carpet cleaner) lent a large fan. She has returned that.

Within a couple of days, she had painted the walls except the bit at the bottom where the water had seaped up. She says she now has a flaking patch. The bit of the wall shes referring to was behind furniture - maybe it was there before and she just didnt know! The house is 500+ years old.

On the night of the leak, we also had a friend request from her on facebook. We also discovered that immediately after hed left that night, she had given a commentary on what had happened including photos of my husband sorting the leak. He didnt know that she was taking photos!!

She's also now got a bee in her bonnet about the guy who fitted the TRV not being gas safe (he did it, hubby checked it!). She wants details of his qualifications! You dont need to be gas safe to fit a TRV!

She says that she couldnt use the room for a month (it took 3 days to dry when we had our carpets cleaned). The furniture was stored in a room in her house that she said she didnt use but now says that she could have people over because of the situation.

Where we are now is that she wont pay but wont say exactly why. Shes using delay tactics all the time. Its only £900 for gods sake, if she hasnt got it, id rather she just said!

Id really appreciate your thoughts on this. Please be nice, I'm so angry and frustrated with this situation.




Go back, knock on her door, and ask her to hand over your dehumidifier.If she refuses, go to your local police station to report the theft of your dehumidifier.DO NOT TELL HER YOU'RE DOING THE AFOREMENTIONED, as she'll only remove it from her property.Police will go round gain access and return your item, that's if you can prove it's yours.
Once you've done this seek free legal advice, but be careful with solicitors as they'll try and draw it out until you're being invoiced for a large chunk.
Weigh up the cost of the solicitors fees against the £900 owed.
Bear in mind, she's saying the leak was caused by you.
You cannot prove she deliberately set out to cause the leak in order to turn you over, and I'm afraid proof is what you need.
She has pictures, images and God knows what showing the leak and damage caused; so legally she has you over a barrel.
Also, by taking round dehumidifiers and cleaners, like it or not, you have actually admitted liability!
No different for being involved in a car crash, getting out the car and saying "sorry"; liability admitted.

She's marked you down as a soft-touch.
Personally, I'd knock on the door, take my unpaid for property off the walls grab my dehumidifier and invite her to contact the police.
That's just me though.

You're only going to upset yourself over the her wrongdoing, so swallow and move on.
P.S. You should have a " All fixtures and fittings and equipment supplied remains the sole property of you until invoice is paid in full etc , etc" on all of your stationery.
Cover your back at all times, and trust no-one.
 
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:welcome: to the forum thom2014...:) Here's a link to your rights https://www.gov.uk/invoicing-and-taking-payment-from-customers/payment-obligations

Your customer has to pay for the goods they agreed for regardless of any damage caused. End of the day your insurance company can deal with that side! may be worth giving them a call for advice, you may even have legal advice cover through your insurance! Have patience, don't loose your temper with them and follow the law! I doubt they'll be recomending you to friends and neighbours but Hey-Ho! :)
 
Defo debit collector. Sounds like a real tool. Neighbour was there as a witness. She knows how to work system. On benefits by any chance?
 
Dont know if shes on benefits but shes certainly a manipulative old lady!
 
Go back, knock on her door, and ask her to hand over your dehumidifier.If she refuses, go to your local police station to report the theft of your dehumidifier.DO NOT TELL HER YOU'RE DOING THE AFOREMENTIONED, as she'll only remove it from her property.Police will go round gain access and return your item, that's if you can prove it's yours.
No they won't they will tell you it is a civil matter. They might speak to her for you if they have nothing better to do and feel sorry for you but that's it.
 
I agree with Simon you have taken too long to take action but better late than never.
You should go small claim court route.
I am sure you will find a link online and even on this forum somewhere.

Process:
Today - send her a final demand including a note that if payment is not received within 14 days you will begin court proceedings.

Then the process is really simple, you can DIY and it is cheap to do.
The down side is it takes ages but you have already waited over two months and it is a small amount.
I would also put every detail in writing now while you still can remember it and gather evidence now - because the actual court hearing could be in almost 12 months time.
Most cases do get settled before the court hearing.

Through the small claims process you can claim only the invoice amount (or less) and interest and up to £50 per day for appearing in court (I think).
So in our T&C we warn customers that there will be a £75 admin charge for each reminder for payment that we have to send after payment is 7 days over due.
That way they have some incentive to pay up on time, or if it goes to court we can offer to wave that charge for early settlement before the court hearing.

There are very few people like that that you have described - but they are out there and work long enough and you will meet them.
I think we have worked for her too!
 
Hi

We always get the customer to sign a loan form for any equipment e.g. fan heaters etc. might want to think about that for next time, sign for receipt and sign for return.

If it went to court the custmer could only claim for 'loss' which not using a room etc is hard to prove so would get very little or nothing!

I would contact my insurers first (which may be too late if a timescale is in the clauses) as if fraud is likely she may back off.

I would start a sequence of letters immediately requesting payment within a reasonable timescale or a response as to any reasons why so you can answer answer them individually. once you have a response you can escalate it to debt collectors, solicitors or other when you have her problems in writing.

If she doesn't respond then I guess you need to decide with solicitors or debt collectors which I would mention in the initial contact letter.

If in your opinion the trv was tampered with then next time I would go straight to the insurers as a loss adjuster will rule straight away.


Good Luck
 
If it went to court the custmer could only claim for 'loss' which not using a room etc is hard to prove so would get very little or nothing!

If you take customer to small claims court they can put in a counter claim.
However, if inconvenience of this sort, or distress caused, has no monetary value and nothing will be awarded to them.
It is all about actually money.

Another point - everyone should be very careful about loaning equipment to customers.
Was it safe - can you prove it was safe - did you give them written instructions and show them how to use it.
Some things are so obvious but people do misuse stuff - kill themselves and you could be blamed.
 
Final written demand for payment within 10 working days, then initiate small claims procedure online, no solicitor needed at all, cost £50 or so and simple to do, if she doesnt defend then case closed in your favour and she will have a county court judgement against her. If she defendends herself or counter sues you both get a morning in front of a judge and he will decide, no solicitors allowed. if you win judge will decide costs and payment terms. if she doesnt cough you can use court bailiff who has legal powers above any debt collector to get your cash simples
 
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