non paying customers

[mfgs]

When a customer does not pay, do you send out a final notice warning or anything similar to help to prompt them into paying?

I clearly state on my invoice that the payment terms are 7 days, I have a customer who is being very awkward and is asking for copies of my receipts for the materials I supplied on the job. He will not pay until he has these apparently. I didn't even add any mark up to the materials I supplied and he has an invoice from me for them. I wont be giving him any copies of my receipts for them now as a matter of principle.

What is the best way to tackle this without kicking him door down and demanding the money. I was thinking an official looking final warning letter with threat of a debt collection agency may work.

 

[cr0ft]

How much does he owe you?

 

[SimonG]

Hes not entitled to any paperwork, but you should have had a percentage on the materials. Whats his reason for not paying?

 

[ADM360]

As far as I'm concerned the invoices for materials on my account are mine, if he wants the invoices he should have purchased the materials!

Was this for a quoted job? as if it was he has already agreed the costs!

I also have terms of payment but also add that if not settled within the agreed time then admin/ surcharges may be added!

I usually send a copy of the original stating that it is over due and that charges may be added if not payed, if that doesn't work send a third including admin fees and late payment charges and with that i normally get the amount of the first invoice!

Don't know if how this would stand up, but at least it on there and you do need to cover the cost of time spend re-issuing repeat invoices.

also state that all materials remain my property till all invoices are settled in full! again I don't think this stands up to much in court but its got go in your favor!!

most of my invoices for small jobs now contain more on the bottom about payment than on the actual invoice itself.

Sorry for the ramble!!

 

[mfgs]

Hes not entitled to any paperwork, but you should have had a percentage on the materials. Whats his reason for not paying?

Owed about £800. The reason for not paying is that he doesn't have a copy of my receipts, he said he wont pay until I have sent him a copy. I have informed him that they are my receipts and the invoice I have sent him is the only one he needs. I normally add a mark up on, but this job I actually didn't. So its not even like I am trying to hide anything, he is just winding me up and I refuse to make him a copy as he has no right to have a copy.

 

[Ray Stafford]

It depends on how you quoted.

If you quoted "£300 + materials at cost" then I think he has reasonable grounds to ask to see the materials cost.

If you quoted ""£300 for labour + £500 for materials" then he can go whistle.

As a last warning, we fill out the court papers, and send a copy, recorded delivery to the debtors house with a covering note saying "if no money in x days, we file the court papers".

 

[ADM360]

I would say a best he could reasonably ask for a break down of the invoice! which may be a compromise for you to make to speed along payment.

May by you could reissue the original invoice and include a brief break down of that invoice?

 

[mfgs]

I quoted the full amount including all parts and labour which was accepted. I have already broken down the material and labour cost at his request, now its like he don't believe me and is trying to double check. He is just being a pain. I would rather take him to court than give him a copy of my documents, just to be awkward.

 

[Ray Stafford]

I quoted the full amount including all parts and labour which was accepted.

Was both quote and acceptance in writing?

If so, you are home and dry, provided that you did the job that is described on the quote.

I would rather take him to court than give him a copy of my documents, just to be awkward.

attaboy!

 

[mfgs]

The quote was in writing, but I didn't get confirmation in writing as he called up to discuss the quote and give the go ahead. I should have got an email confirmation really, but then again I really shouldn't need it. People should just be true to their word and pay.

 

[ADM360]

did you get him to sigh a copy of the quote and return to you? I have to do that now as well!

It's all more time and paper work just to cover your own hide to try and get paid for the work you've done, yet they would be the first to kick up if the pay cheque was a few quid short, or not there because the boss wants to check that they actually did what they said they did! it takes the __(insert word of your choice here)!!

Last one I had that got a bit shirty over an invoice I passed the letter to a local solicitor who is a regular who kindly drafted me a letter to send back, all the right words in all the right places!! which got the cheque back in the post!!

 

[Howsie]

If you sent a quote and started the work then he has, in the eyes of the law, accepted it. Tell him you'll provide the receipts at an Admin cost of (at least) £50 that you will add to his bill.

 

[mfgs]

I think I am going to have to take more steps to cover myself in the future, its all time consuming and a real pain. I have just sent one final nice email reminding him that the invoice is still outstanding and asking for it to be paid. Hopefully this will work as I could do without the hassle at the moment.

 

[Ray Stafford]

I think I am going to have to take more steps to cover myself in the future, its all time consuming and a real pain.

Just make sure that it's proportionate. Its easy to over-react after a difficult situation, but it would be daft to add 30 mins of admin to 100 jobs (cost = 50 non-billable hours) in order to save a relatively small amount of aggro or money on one job.

The ONLY way to not have non-payment problems is to insist on cash up front.

And even then you can get conned - we've just been taken for £11k on a series of stolen credit cards.

Doing business involves risk. The trick is to get your processes tuned proportionately to the different risks.

 

[mfgs]

Just make sure that it's proportionate. Its easy to over-react after a difficult situation, but it would be daft to add 30 mins of admin to 100 jobs (cost = 50 non-billable hours) in order to save a relatively small amount of aggro or money on one job.

The ONLY way to not have non-payment problems is to insist on cash up front.

And even then you can get conned - we've just been taken for £11k on a series of stolen credit cards.

Doing business involves risk. The trick is to get your processes tuned proportionately to the different risks.

Wise words Ray. I just hate the thought of people trying to get one over on me for no reason. I have completed the job as quoted for, which was rectifying shoddy workmanship from a previous plumber. The customer was delighted at the time. I went out of my way to help him on a landlords safety check and wait for Transco to change an ECV so I could give him a cert ready for tenants to move in and charged no extra for the time I was there waiting. Now he is trying to not pay and cause me time and stress I could do without.

 

[cr0ft]

Owed about £800. The reason for not paying is that he doesn't have a copy of my receipts, he said he wont pay until I have sent him a copy. I have informed him that they are my receipts and the invoice I have sent him is the only one he needs. I normally add a mark up on, but this job I actually didn't. So its not even like I am trying to hide anything, he is just winding me up and I refuse to make him a copy as he has no right to have a copy.

A letter before action normally does the job for me. You will lose him as a customer but I guess you don't want him anyway. If he doesn't pay up within 14 days you start proceedings using the Moneyclaim website.

Citizens Advice - Step one: Write a letter before action

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

He has no right to see your receipts I would suggest.

 

[Destroyer2813]

Does your merchant do hand written invoices or print out just ask nicely if they write you a bill for 699 quid

 

[hammers4spanner]

Some finance departments of suppliers can take up a debt which I found out in the past.

However if it's just some joe Briggs Muppets get the sheriff to ccj them with seven day payment terms.
Personal I would give them an off the record threat that if they don't pay I'm happy to pass the debt on to a local illegal collector so to speak

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Someone didn't pay me once, not a lot of money but it gave me the hump.

I told them I'd turn their water off if they didn't pay up and I'd doctor it so they wouldn't be able to turn it back on!!

They paid.

That's the only time. I've had people trying to reduce price on agreed price when work done. No thanks, not interested.

 

[Ermintrude]

Don't you get custards to sign for completion and acceptance of works?

 

[Centralheatking]

WE have had a few probs regarding non payments over the past 35 years +

they fall into several areas 1. we messed up - rare
2. they wont pay
3. they cant pay

My Mrs is a barrister but if you can avoid court its best - even if it means making a deal
for a little bit less in cash or a few staged payments.

Mind you the last fella that gave us grief - his Mrs paid up straightaway when i suggested
I was going to knock on all their neighbours doors and explain they were not paying me for honest completed work Centralheatking

 

[cr0ft]

Get a small incense pot. Turd in it or better still, if you have a dog or cat fill it with their turd. Light it. Using the chain they come with lower it through their letterbox.

Turn off their stoptap in the street during the dead of night. Fill chamber with cement. Laugh evilly.

Let down the tyres of any vehicles on the drive in the dead of night again. Stab each tyre with a stanley knife. Leave property.

Urinate through their letter box during the night. Make sure they do not have a dog before doing this.

Find the nearest drainage inspection chamber to the street on their property. Fill the outlet with cement, use a drain rod to push it as far down the drain as you possibly can. On completion of this, connect up their loft tank overflows to the rainwater downpipes and have the last laugh next time it rains and the water backflows into their loft.

Turn up at their work and tell the reception staff you are there to get paid by their employee.

Get a female friend to turn up at their wife's work and explain that they are feeling incredibly guilty about the affair they have been having with the man of the house.

Buy some live crickets from any pet shop that sells lizards. Post them through their letter box.

Sign them up for a free sample of Tena incontinence pads for Men/Women as appropriate.

None of these will help you get your money back but they will make it feel like less of a knock. And quite possibly land you in prison if you get caught!

 

[JAH HEATING]

Tell them, their double glazing costs a lot more than what you are rightfully owed

 

[mfgs]

After my email earlier he is now offering to pay the labour cost but not for any materials until I send him copies of my receipts, what a massive pain in the arse. I want to go and smack him in the mouth haha.

 

[tamz]

Just send them to him, get paid then drop him in the shyt next time he phones you.

 

[helpsy]

On a different note I think this is where a card machine also earns it's keep as the customer has to bring any issues up with you there and then really to avoid payment.

 

[tamz]

Then there is chargeback. A whole different world of shyt that is harder to overcome.

 

[helpsy]

Surely they would then be on the spot to raise any issues though?!

 

[Reg Man]

Quote>also state that all materials remain my property till all invoices are settled in full! again I don't think this stands up to much in court but its got go in your favor!!<Quote. This does not stand up under contract law. Once you have entered a contract, which is when you have agreement to go forward with the work, any materials delivered to the job are in essence part of of the contract and therefore tied up. You will be breaking the law if you try to retrieve them in anyway other than contractually dispute and resolution.

 

[tamz]

Civil law tho Steve. The polis won't be interested unless you kicked the door in.

I have experience of this a few years back.

 

[tamz]

Surely they would then be on the spot to raise any issues though?!

They have 120 days to raise an issue with their card company. If paid by credit card and over £100 it is a section 75. Same result for you. You need a Philadelphia lawyer to sort it out and the end result is usually you loose.
Cash is king :smile:

 

[Reg Man]

Only becomes criminal law if you retrieve those materials once delivered to site and they are tied into a contract. In effect you are therefore also in breach of contract and it will not go well for you. It is classed as theft even though you have not been paid for the materials.

 

[tamz]

Best one i evere heard of was a local plumber who had fitted a bathroom for a woman.
She wouldn't pay, always coming up with some excuse of something wasn't right.
After a few months of return calls he called out one night and had a sit down with the woman and her man and they went through everything with a fine toothcomb and wrote down every single thing they were using as an excuse for not paying down to the spec of dust in the corner.

It was agreed he would come back the following week and go through the list to their satisfaction.
The guy turned up the next week with another lad and told the woman they would have to turn the water off for a bit.
They then stripped the bathroom out put it in the van and capped the pipes.
He then went downstairs turned the water on and said he had to dash as he had an emergency call and would be back later.
Never got to the end of the street before she was on the phone screaming.
The end result was she had to shyt in a bucket for a week and get a new bathroom.
Nothing ever came of the legal threats.

 

[Howsie]

Many a pan, basin and bath has been uninstalled with a hammer. Occasionally a kneecap or two just for the fun.

 

[tamz]

Only becomes criminal law if you retrieve those materials once delivered to site and they are tied into a contract. In effect you are therefore also in breach of contract and it will not go well for you. It is classed as theft even though you have not been paid for the materials.

It is classed as a civil case up here Steve. No laws are broken if you are invited in or in my case i had keys. The police are not interested other than paying a visit and noting it down.
Civil cases are not cheap to bring so most will cut their losses as you have had to do.
You may get the odd one who will pursue it but if you think they would there are always other ways if you want things to get nasty and don't have a conscience.