Not happy with with new unvented system, although it works fine. Shower pressure issue

[kash]

Update

So he came and did the work. I asked him to take measurements and we saw the below. I didn't take all the ones requested as he wasnt intirely in mood to faf about, and not sure how much difference it would have made given that he was on site to do the job anyway.

Direct from mains
Flow rate: 24L per min
Pressure: 2.4 bar
Flow rate AFTER the water softner: 14L per min
Mains incoming pipe: 15mm > this extended into loft space then converted into 22mm into the unvented tank

So it seems that the water softner (water2buy W2B200) was responsbile for a lot of flow / pressure loss. After testing and discussing, it was case of either removing the water softner and wasting £350 + the labour i paid to fit and gain better flow; but still not the amazing shower pressure that I was used to, and still have potential issues when mutiple outlets open, or, go ahead and install the tank and pump anyway and elminate any issues pre-emptivley.

I opted for the later, as this way, i'd have a 300L store of softened hot AND cold water and wouldnt have to worry about loss of pressure with multiple outlets open. It was an expensive solution / addition, but I think i'm happy with it. I need to actually use everything properly in the real world, but from what I played with for about 5 minutes, It seemed like I had both showers pumped (awesome pressure), and every outlet open with decent flow (i'll confirm this again when I have more time to go around and open everything and flush all the toilets at once. Had I never had the water softener installed, i do question If I would have just settled with the output but.... it is what it is and its done now.

I notice that I hear the pump run for a minute or two each time the hot outlet was open (I think as it was refilling the hot unvented tank), but the pump is pretty quiet and it seems like a small price to pay for the solution. Obviously I expect the pump to run for longer when showering, but again, its pretty damn quiet so it's not so bad.

Here's a few pics of the install. He ran out of 15mm pipe lagging but i'm picking some up after work and i'll do this myself as its a 10 minute job. I've got Kingspan coming in to inspect the unvented tank install still on Friday to validate the warranty - so i'm hoping everything is ok and that the set up I now have is up to scratch.

1 thing he did moan about was that online or in the manual i think it said that it was a 3/4 inch fitting but it was actually a 1inch fitting (or the other way around - not sure) - so he had to make up an adaptor.

Thanks again @ShaunCorbs

I'll let you know how things go.

Happy to hear any comments, questions or feedback from what you can see in the pictures.
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At the tap with no flow the pressure would be zero (or worse!) so I hope that is upstairs. If its 5 m above kitchen tap you can be sure the dynamic pressure is less than 0.5Bar at the kitchen tap.

What is the flow from kitchen tap only, with softener, and with softener bypassed? All you need is a bucket and a timer to measure this now and it is VITAL information. Maybe a new mains supply pipe wouldn't cost much more than your plans if you can dig a trench.

Digging a trench wasnt an option unfortanatly.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Water Softener Manufacturer | Harvey Water Softeners

We are the largest water softener manufacturer in Europe, designing and building thousands of water softeners in Old Woking every year.

www.harveywatersofteners.co.uk

High flow rate up to 55lpm

 

[kash]

Water Softener Manufacturer | Harvey Water Softeners

We are the largest water softener manufacturer in Europe, designing and building thousands of water softeners in Old Woking every year.

www.harveywatersofteners.co.uk

High flow rate up to 55lpm

Sorry - not sure what you mean?

 

[SJB060685]

Sorry - not sure what you mean?

I assume hes posted a link to a water softener that provides better flow rates than your existing

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sorry - not sure what you mean?

I’m recommending harvys if you do change your water softener later on

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

That plumbing certainly looks interesting......glad it all works!

But from what you've said your flow rates entering the house are fine. If it had been fitted with a 22mm main up to the cylinder and a better softener then i'm sure you wouldn't have had any issues with the standard set up.

 

[Scott_D]

does the plumber know about this thread?

 

[gmartine]

Blimey, didn't anybody suggest changing the shower head?

 

[kash]

I assume hes posted a link to a water softener that provides better flow rates than your existing

Ah I missed that, as i was looking quickly on my phone.

I’m recommending harvys if you do change your water softener later on

I did actually have a quote from them - but it was over £800 for their system. However, I never new about or considered the flow rate problems. I assume it was whatever went in, is what came out. The water2buy one didn't mention anything about this on the product page or in the spec's as far as I am aware. Also, I purchased the kit in september so its way past its return period. Not that I need to now, but I will defo look at this factor for a future unit when required.

That plumbing certainly looks interesting....glad it all works!

But from what you've said your flow rates entering the house are fine. If it had been fitted with a 22mm main up to the cylinder and a better softener then i'm sure you wouldn't have had any issues with the standard set up.

Haha - interesting in a good or bad way? In the plumbers defence, we was working in a pretty restricted area with hardly any head room so running the pipework couldn't have been easy for anyone. I agree with your statement about the pipe size and softener though. Thus said, it was too late to do any of that, and digging up the road and driveway at this stage wasn't an option, or was it before. I now know for next time. Lesson learned the hard way i guess. But hey, at least i now have the output that I wanted (thanks to you all tbh, especially shaun).

does the plumber know about this thread?

He knows i've been researching online - but not this particular thread. I am disappointed that he didn't propose these solutions himself, or warn me of the possible issues before we had everything installed. It seems to have been a case of 'curing' issue rather then preventing them.

Whilst we didn't want to lose the water softer, if he had proved to me that it was the cause of the issue, BEFORE we agreed to do all the additional work, i would have felt less bitter about it.

He quoted towards the end - "you've got all the answers, i'm just the muscle". Almost felt like i've had to tell him how to do his job in some ways. And he wasn't particularly cheap either.

Blimey, didn't anybody suggest changing the shower head?

Ha - I wish is was that simple. It's not just a simple hand held shower head. It's a large rainhead and waterfall outlet shower from porcelanosa which cost me just over a grand. I think I added some pic's in a previous post.

I've had a shower this evening and it's probably the best shower i've had yet - feels slightly better than what it was with the stuart turner monsoon pump (or maybe it's just in my head - but an amazing shower experience either way).

 

[kash]

Kingspan came out this morning to inspect the installation and they said the installation had been done to a good standard and there were no problems with the new set up. They would be happy to honour the warranty and commence the service plan.

Only question I have is.... the hot water thermostat was set at 65degrees before. The engineer said this was probably be a bit over kill the water would be quite hot to be able to touch and not so energy efficient. He set this to 55degrees. assume this is ok to do?