One or two radiators not working

[Bluenose1940]

I have had a problem with my heating for quite some time now whereby I have three radiators that do not work at all and one that gets luke warm. This weekend I took the bull by the horns and removed the 8 port manifold and, as expected (and hoped for) I found that the flow side of the manifold was more or less completely sludged up but not with what I would call a 'thick creamy sludge' but with what appear to be small flakes of sludge mixed in with the creamy bit. I was really pleased to see this (if that is the right way to put it ha ha) as I imagined that this is what was causing the problem.
Also, some time ago I had fitted a MagnaClean filter that was very full when I looked at it, so this is obviously doing its job properly, I have thoroughly cleaned this before putting it back together, I have also had a sludge removing chemical circulating around the system for about 6 weeks prior to doing this job. This chemical obviously had no effect on the manifold though! Anyway, to continue, I have 11 radiators, three of which are piped directly off the 22mm flow and return pipes and, the other 8 came off the 8 port manifold. All of the radiator pipes are 10mm and are set in the concrete floor.
I have now replaced the 8 port manifold with 4 Speedfit Maniolds so the sludgey manifold has been dispensed with. However, the three problem radiators still remain a problem and are not heating up.
My question is, as it was the flow side of the manifold that was gunged up (the return ports were clear) is it likely that there is either sludge in the pipework of the faulty rads or could it be in the rads themselves (or both), it would seem logical that any sludge would be on the flow side of the system but, where do I go from here? It will probably be difficult to push anything down the pipes as if there are 90degree bends I aint gonna get round em!
One further point, about 18months ago I did remove each of the radiators and flush them through in the garden.

Any advice to overcome this problem will be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

 

[mrlennie]

Sounds like the build up of sludge was because where the manifold reduces down to microbore it is acting like a sieve and collecting there. Is there no way of testing the rads by putting hose on the begining of the pipe work to the radiator ( just after the manifold if you know what i mean?) Then take the rad off see if any water comes out. obviosly dont put the hose on full pressure you may end up going for a swim but that will tell you if it is blocked.

 

[Bluenose1940]

Hiya mrlennie, thank you for coming in on this. Yesterday I decided to have a go at the radiator in the bathroom which has never worked at all. First of all I drained the rad completely then I opened up the lockshield valve on the return pipe and found that I had a good flow of water. Then i opened up the thermstatic valve completely and....nothing. This confirmed my earlier thought that any sludging beyond the original 8 port manifold would be on the flow side (my earlier post mentioned that it was the flow side of the manifold that was bunged-up) I then proceeded to drain the whole system and removed the thermostatic valve and shoved some wire down the flow pipe to see if I encountered any sludge but there was nothing down as far as the 90 dgree bend beneath the concrete so I assumed that the blockage was probably on the straight run up to that bend beneath the floor. I decided to try to free this blockage with my air compressor. I place the nozzle of the gun on the 10mm pipe and gave it a few sharp bursts which created a bit of blow-back of dirty sludgey water. I kept going and eventually there was an almighty splurge and water started coming out of the reurn valve on the other side of the rad which I was catching in an ice cream container. I ended up getting five of these containers full of dirty water. I also experienced some more quite strong blow-backs at the flow side which resulted in the removal of a lot of sludge all up the tiled walls of the bathroom!!! I then carried out the same procedure in the kitchen without causing so much mess. The end result is two radiators now working super efficiently. I have one more to do which is in the loung so I am now giving lots of thought to how best to tackle this as I cannot afford to mess up the carpet and wallpaper but.......I do have some ideas in mind. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks for your thoughts. Hopefully what I have done will be of some help to others.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

the way i would go is to connect a hose pipe to the opposite valve and run it outside to a drain then do your stuff with the air compressor.

 

[mrlennie]

Nice one bluenose thanks for letting us know the outcome Good advice steve I will do that in future then you can let rip

 

[Bluenose1940]

Hi steveb, yes I had a similar thought. What I might do, because of the possibility of blowback again, mainly because I can't get a totally airtight seal between the compressor gun and the 10mm pipe, is to take both valves off of the faulty rad, attach a length of hosepie to each, secured by way of a jubilee clip, run the hoses outside and then force the air down the hose attached to the return pipe which will hopefully force the sludge from the flow side out into the garden. I think that this might be better than my original idea because by forcing the air down the flow side (which I did in the bathroom and kitchen) I may possibly have made some of the sludge transfer to the flow side of other rads. Do you think that my thoughts seem logical and what do you think of my latest idea? Thanks for your help.

 

[RoryD]

Hi fellow blue nose...you can attach a footpump to the systen (after the manifold) and clearly after drain down, and pump away until it gives. Once that's all done add some fernox f3 for a few weeks.

 

[Bluenose1940]

Hiya RoryD, Are you Birmingham or Rangers? Thanks for this info. Couple of questions though. What is the exact procedure that you are suggesting and is there any reason for a foot pump rather than a compressor. Does a footpump connect to 10mm pipe OK with a good seal? Do you attach the pump to the flow or return pipe. After the drain down, do you close all of the other rads off completely including the air vent screws? can you keep your eye on this thread please in case I have any more questions. Thank you.

 

[RoryD]

Hiya RoryD, Are you Birmingham or Rangers? Thanks for this info. Couple of questions though. What is the exact procedure that you are suggesting and is there any reason for a foot pump rather than a compressor. Does a footpump connect to 10mm pipe OK with a good seal? Do you attach the pump to the flow or return pipe. After the drain down, do you close all of the other rads off completely including the air vent screws? can you keep your eye on this thread please in case I have any more questions. Thank you.

Brum..
I slip a 10mm pipe into a 10mm"bullet adaptor" (at BG we use 'em instead of 10mm olives on rad valves) and that in turn is put into a 15mm compression coupler. The other end of the coupler usually fits onto a 15mm pipe or in your case either 8mm or 10 mm pipe (you'll need an appropriate sized bullet for your pipe size).. Anyway the original 10mm pipe i mentioned earlier is for your foot pump to fit on after everything is 'nipped up' and away you go !!

 

[Bluenose1940]

Glad you support the right team! Thanks for your reply. I'm not too sure that I'm quite with you on this but perhaps if I keep on reading it, it will hopefully fall into place. However, I do not understand about your reference to a "Bullet adaptor" I have never heard of these and have certainly never seen one. You didn't mention whether I should be blowing down the flow or return pipe, My own thoughts are that if I blow down the return pipe it will (or should) force the sluge out of the flow pipe along the shortest distance, i.e. in the direction of the disconnected radiator, rather than towards the flow pipes of other radiators. Am I correct in thinking this? Thanks again for your help. Keep right on!

Brum..
I slip a 10mm pipe into a 10mm"bullet adaptor" (at BG we use 'em instead of 10mm olives on rad valves) and that in turn is put into a 15mm compression coupler. The other end of the coupler usually fits onto a 15mm pipe or in your case either 8mm or 10 mm pipe (you'll need an appropriate sized bullet for your pipe size).. Anyway the original 10mm pipe i mentioned earlier is for your foot pump to fit on after everything is 'nipped up' and away you go !!

 

[RoryD]

Bullets are reducers that fit into a standard 15mm radiator valve bottom when accomodating a 10mm / 8mm pipe... wot area r u in?

 

[Bluenose1940]

Hiya, sorry I'm so late getting back to you. I normally get an email when anyone responds to a post but didn't this time. I live in Budleigh Salterton in Devon.

 

[RoryD]

Budeigh!! God spent time up on Woodbury.. was at Lympstone for some time do you know it?

 

[Bluenose1940]

Yep, know Lympstone well. Are you an ex marine or something?

 

[RoryD]

Yep, know Lympstone well. Are you an ex marine or something?

yup!! Lived most of my life down in Plymouth, now back up in Brum. the method explained is pretty effective so give it a go, then ensure u dose the system with f3 (fernox) and balance it all

 

[Bluenose1940]

All of my radiators are now working beautifully. The process did get a bit messy at times but boy did I shift some sludge. I did the final rad today and thought that I had closed all of the others down completely. After a few blasts down the pipe with my compressor I needed to pop to the loo, went to the bathroom and to my horror I found that I had a small flood, I forgot to close the air vent on this rad didn't I! Fortunately the bathroom is fully tiled floor to ceiling so it was pretty easy to clean up. I'm blooming glad that I didn't leave any others open! Anyway, thanks to all who contributed to my getting an efficient heating system again.