Part L trv's

[Reltub]

Any1 got a link to information regarding wether or not you have to fit trv's onto an existing system when changing a boiler? I always fit them anyway but someone was saying that you cant make a customer bring everything upto part L ie trv's room stats cylinder lagging etc etc

 

[fast phil]

if you fit a new boiler you dont have to fit trvs but you have to fit a room stat

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

..but someone was saying that you cant make a customer bring everything upto part L ie trv's room stats cylinder lagging etc etc

Instinct tells me this is true - after all meeting Building Regs is home owners responsibility NOT ours!

But my instincts are wrong.
I am sure the rules are that TRVs must now be fitted and it is Building Regs 2010.
You asked for link - I might find one for you but not right now.
It is one of those Building Regs doc.s

But I have never got my head around the responsibilities of the Gas Installer to comply with Building Regs... and why TRVs were optional and then became compulsory.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

Trvs only when changing rads or installing new system. Dont have to if only changing boiler

 

[plumber0808]

It's their house if they don't want them they don't have to.

 

[tamz]

To comply with building regs and best practice they should be fitted but if someones boiler packs in and they can barely afford a new boiler no one is going to haul them or you into court because they couldn't afford trv's.
It just would never happen.

 

[lame plumber]

just complete the benchmark to show no trvs fitted!

 

[Mike Jackson]

I offer them as an option on the quote along with a note that they are a requirement for full compliance with part L. Very few customers take me up on the fitting of them.

 

[Nostrum]

Strictly speaking you are self certifying the installation to comply with the relevant building regulations. Like tamz said, your not going to get into any bother by not doing it, but at the same time you are issuing a certificate of compliance and not complying.

 

[aligorgon]

I fitted a boiler and room stat the other day in a customers house.

Cust. Didnt want TRVs fitting, so I didnt.

As I have recently gone self employed and have to show some of my work to local Gas safe man I was going to use this job.

Now I aint sure!!

 

[Reltub]

Lol no1 seems to have a definitive answer or reference to where it states the rules!

 

[nowucit]

I fitted a boiler and room stat the other day in a customers house.

Cust. Didnt want TRVs fitting, so I didnt.

As I have recently gone self employed and have to show some of my work to local Gas safe man I was going to use this job.

Now I aint sure!!

I did an install recently just as you describe which was viewed by the gas safe inspector he didn't bat an eyelid

 

[AWheating]

Lol no1 seems to have a definitive answer or reference to where it states the rules!

is not covered in the regs and the domestic heating compliance guide?

 

[TBServices]

I fitted a boiler and room stat the other day in a customers house.

Cust. Didnt want TRVs fitting, so I didnt.

As I have recently gone self employed and have to show some of my work to local Gas safe man I was going to use this job.

Now I aint sure!!

Gas safe wont care, its not a gas issue. It's building regs.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

is not covered in the regs and the domestic heating compliance guide?

Yes it is - both the 2010 and older versions (and perhaps more, hold on I'll find the exact reference!

Ok : find the guide here: Planning Portal - Building Services Compliance Guides

This is the latest Domestic Building Compliance Guide (2010/2011):
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/domestic_building_compliance_guide_2010.pdf
table 2 point 5 page 23.

Obviously as professionals we have knowledge about B Regs that most customers do not have - so we should advice and recommend that they comply with B Regs.

And the rules are what they are - TRVs are the recommended way of controlling space heating in every room - and that control over the space heating room by room is not optional.

(Note - where it says recommended - that doesn't mean optional, it means you must comply but might find some other way of acheiving that result...)

I am pretty sure it is the Home-owners duty to comply with Building Regs - not any work men they employ.
But when you register a new installation with GSR and customer gets the BR certificate - that in effect says you as the heating engineer made sure the installation did comply with B Regs.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

I think there is problem that we re not all playing to same rules. i am sure there used to be a get out clause so poor people could JUST replace boiler with out added expenses.
Mr TP tells me a some customers don't want a STat - don't know if you come across that.
We don't compete for budget work but I am sure at the prices I hear about people are not even quoting for TRVs or anything extra...

 

[Reltub]

Thats what i've been after tara thanks! I looked on there before and couldnt find that section. At least now if any1 says different i can print that and show them

 

[diamondgas]

You may find these link useful regarding building regs Planning Portal - Building Regulations, Planning Portal - Failure to comply with the Building Regulations
I vaguely remember a similar conversation a while back and something about 2yrs on nothing can be done! Not 100% sure mind

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

Thanks for that v interesting: I quote from your link:

"If a person carrying out building work contravenes the Building Regulations, the local authority or another person may decide to take them to the magistrates' court where they could be fined up to £5000 for the contravention, and up to £50 for each day the contravention continues after conviction (section 35 of the Building Act 1984). This action will usually be taken against the builder or main contractor, and proceedings must be taken within two years from the completion of the work. Alternatively, or in addition, the local authority may serve an enforcement notice on the owner requiring them to alter or remove work which contravenes the regulations...."

In reality though - who is going to be checking the trvs/ stat/ zones are all installed as required?
These things add a lot to the bills of the poorest people in small homes and I personally doubt the cost saving benefit of them in very small homes, flats, terraced houses.... That's why our company rarely work in these homes - we can't afford to. We quote by the book - and declare our income for tax/vat - so we just can't compete with much smaller quotes. And I know some of the customers just can ill afford the cost of replacement boiler....

 

[diamondgas]

Thanks for that v interesting: I quote from your link:



In reality though - who is going to be checking the trvs/ stat/ zones are all installed as required?
These things add a lot to the bills of the poorest people in small homes and I personally doubt the cost saving benefit of them in very small homes, flats, terraced houses.... That's why our company rarely work in these homes - we can't afford to. We quote by the book - and declare our income for tax/vat - so we just can't compete with much smaller quotes. And I know some of the customers just can ill afford the cost of replacement boiler....

I totally agree Mrs TP Who is going to report the work to the LA and then, would they really pursue such a case? Unlikely I'd believe, unless someone knows different ? I can imagine it being difficult to compete when you're complying with the regs. Me personally I don't really care if the custard says no to my quote as I am not that big a fan of installs these days and do them begrudgingly

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

We price our work to be installed to regs AND make us a decent living (Mr TP wants a porsche but that's another story)
Therefore -
we are more expensive than most and we don't expect to win when we quote against others.
Luckily we do get work based on reputation - and do plenty of bathrooms!

And Mr TP often gets called to look at jobs in properties where he has quoted for replacement boiler. The install they got may have been cheaper but also very different to what Mr TP quoted for. - Make of boiler/ location of boiler/ type & size of rads/ as well as stat/ TRVs

And on numerous occasions Mr TP has gone to look at jobs because rival / cheaper install does not even work.

I know you guys all have these experiences - but after 13 years working in this business (office based) - I still find these stories amazing and frequent.