Plumbing Licence

[Ermintrude]

Pas 2020 and all the other Eco pap is set up to keep joe and mates out and the boys clubs in centrica?

 

[oz-plumber]

Having thought about this for many years, I don't believe its worth the loss of freedom.

This supposed to be a free country. We accept some limits on freedom for the general good - so to be a doctor, lawyer, dentist or gas-fitter, you have to be regulated.

Plumbing just isn't in that category.

And where does it stop? So car mechanics lobby to prevent me from working on my own car? How long before roofers want to stop me nipping up a ladder to sort out that ridge tile?
Or will professional cooks object to my wife making her beef stroganoff unless she qualifies as food safe?

All these things can kill if done wrong. I bet they kill far more people than DIY plumbing does.

And I find it very, very hard to believe that anything is ever improved by a "government scheme".

Hi Ray,

In response to your post, you have made some valid points, but I think you are wrong about not classifying Plumbing as a restricted trade.

A doctor couldn't care whether you bought aspirin from a shop for a headache.
A dentist couldn't care whether or not you pulled your own tooth out with pliers.
A lawyer would be delighted if you were representing yourself in court - against him/her.

We are not told what to do over here, we follow sets of regulation outlined by a governing authority. It the same as following MI's for commissioning of a boiler - if you follow the instructions you don't have a problem.
If you are stuck with a problem - read the regulations / instructions.

It is intended that all works should be done to a standard and be uniform - it does get annoying at times but they are the rules of the game.
If you don't want to play by the rules - do so at your own risk.
There are consequences.

Plumbing is a fairly lucrative job over here and its partly due to the fact that the trade is restricted and regulated.
If you don't do a 4 year apprenticeship you can't get a ticket.
If you don't have a ticket you are awfully restricted where and what you can work on.

To put it bluntly: The trade is restricted and the restrictions are heavily enforced by the Plumbers in the game.
We want to protect our industry.

Honestly, if our trade was de-regulated we would probably have to work for 1/2 the amount we work for now.

Oz-Plumber

 

[chris watkins]

Plumbing is a fairly lucrative job over here and its partly due to the fact that the trade is restricted and regulated.
If you don't do a 4 year apprenticeship you can't get a ticket.
If you don't have a ticket you are awfully restricted where and what you can work on.

To put it bluntly: The trade is restricted and the restrictions are heavily enforced by the Plumbers in the game.
We want to protect our industry.

Honestly, if our trade was de-regulated we would probably have to work for 1/2 the amount we work for now.

Oz-Plumber

You would be lucky to work for half Oz, trust me there are guys working over here for a lot less.

 

[oz-plumber]

If that is the case Skippy,why can you shuffle down to Bunnings (oz bQ) and buy any plumbing gear you need,its the trades men who suffer in OZ,read between the lines chaps,if they brought out a 'Plumbing licence' here we would have another bill same as gassafe to pay,and joe public would still buy gear from BQ,and do there own stuff,been there and got the t shirt,In Perth there is plenty of Kosovans,Slovaks,plumbing with out a licence,do the plumbing police go after them noooo,do they sting brits for a ****load of money to pick up a spanner yessss,get real Skippy,

You're not a happy camper are you?

Try looking at the glass as 1/2 full instead 1/4 empty!

By the way,
How much did you get charged for picking up a spanner?

 

[gasmanrob]

If I hadn't of settled down I'd be in oz as we speak, but the wife won't move and I've established myself where I am.

Regardless of what you feel over having the government interfere with plumbing oz raises a key point!

the plumbers over there are keen to protect their trade and assist in enforcing rules and regs, everything done to a standard.

If we weren't so busy blaming the government and the governing body's for their short comings then maybe we could have come up with something that works that everyone is proud of.

I am proud to be a plumbing and heating engineer, I am proud to put my name to my work, I'm proud that I was taught lead work, working with barrel, and traditional plumbing methods. As well as working with new systems and products coming through. I am one of the last generations to come through college and have everything taught before things were dropped like lead work. I want to protect that if my boys decide to follow on in my footsteps I want to teach them the traditional values and techniques,

and I want to protect that!

Yes there are short comings in our current regulatory bodies but will moaning on an Internet forum see that change, No! Will moaning that you have to pay to be accredited to gas safe solve your problems, No!

The bodies are there to work for us, you get out what you put in. If you report someone chase it up find out what's going if you think something needs to change suggest if enough people do the same something may get done. And to everyone that follows this with "what's the point nobody will listen" then you are contributing to the problem.

There are morons that see this job as a means to put food on the table and nothing else. And I think those people need to be forced out of the industry as they are ruining it. Running a company for day rate cp12's for penny's. Cheapest products installed for maximum markup, where is the pride?

I see this job as something I love doing. I like the fact that when I drive past a row of houses I know my work is inside, and what's more I like that I can hold my head up high knowing I did the best job I could and got paid accordingly, what I dislike is quoting something under the same set of key values and then driving past the house seeing Polish Paul and his band of merry Bulgarians taking delivery of a ferroli and a b & q of the shelf bathroom.

I could rant on for hours on this as it's something I care about.

But ultimately the whole approach to the construction industry could do with a shake up and that's my take on it

 

[sheff paul]

You're not a happy camper are you?

Try looking at the glass as 1/2 full instead 1/4 empty!

By the way,
How much did you get charged for picking up a spanner?

not happy or sad skip,just say it as I see it,i didn't get charged that much cause I did it years ago,new poms now get fleeced as hell,most of the guys on here think you guys earn great money,but they forget to factor in the fall of the pound,and the rise of the aussie dollar,i went over on 2.3 to the dollar,which is about right,aussie plumbs are good with their hands,as their job is made harder with flared fittings,and hard soldering everywhere.We had a good time out there,but things forced us back to the UK,most brits look on oz with rose tints,as I probably did 12 years ago,but saw a lot of people out there doing it hard as you say,saw more homeless in oz than in uk,and thease people weren't bums either.

 

[chris watkins]

Here here Gasmanrob, I whole heartily agree with the sentiments in your post, it is just such a shame that we are now in the minority within the industry that we love, so it has becomes almost impossible to effect any changes.

 

[oz-plumber]

Hi all,

I have been pondering for quite some time on a response.

I'm lost for (suitable/allowable) words after Gasmanrobs post.

Our system ( in Victoria ) is not perfect, but it does ensure that most Plumbing work is done by qualified Plumbers.
We are never going to stop DIY'ers doing work, but we have a system in place that can keep their work to a minimum.

We may have a Governing authority - but who is Governing the Governing authority.
May it be a case that we are seen to be working in partnership... or is it a case of the Governed Governing?

Oz Plumber

 

[sheff paul]

Hi all,

I have been pondering for quite some time on a response.

I'm lost for (suitable/allowable) words after Gasmanrobs post

Our system ( in Victoria ) is not perfect, but it does ensure that most Plumbing work is done by qualified Plumbers.
We are never going to stop DIY'ers doing work, but we have a system in place that can keep their work to a minimum.

We may have a Governing authority - but who is Governing the Governing authority.
May it be a case that we are seen to be working in partnership... or is it a case of the Governed Governing?

Oz Plumber

skip do you have hydronic heating down there

 

[northcarr]

Try the renewables sector then

We have to be certified and are checked every year for every type we install, we have to pay fees to at least three different bodies - we actually pay them to FIVE regulatory bodies - and MUST purchase insurance warranty for EVERY installation, on top of that we are audited by each of those bodies for all of our paperwork and have to prove our documented procedures every year... that's about 16 days a year just chasing regulatory paperwork.

So as we are are qualified for heat pumps (ground and air), biomass, solar thermal, solar pv, air conditioning, G3, electrics ... just think of the amount of time we already spend on paperwork for every job - a MINIMUM of 8 HOURS.. plus all those luverly fees to third parties.... don't expect us to be cheaper than Joe (unregistered) Plumber ....

And that is why I have made the choice not to get involved with renewables until all new builds are forced to fit them,then the cost will drop for all of it including admin because builders will not stand for it .

 

[Phillay]

It's difficult to regulate plumbing or any other trade. As far as the experienced tradesman who are out there, I totally agree their skills should be protected and they shouldn't have to go round correcting problems that have been caused by 'have a go' home owners who've seen it dabbled with on one of the makeover programs on TV.

So regulations and licenses in place make a lot of sense... that said, there are also way too many plumbers/builders etc... out there who use bad practices and don't take the care and time to do things right. You've got home owners who'll take more care and do a better job than some 'trade professionals'.

I'm not a sparky by any means, but I know flex cable shouldn't really be buried in plastered walls... so why would a licensed sparky do it??... (I've seen it done many times).

So if it's regulated and there are licenses in place, it's then only fair tradesman are re-tested regularly to try and ensure that the correct practises are being followed in peoples homes.

 

[chris watkins]

It's difficult to regulate plumbing or any other trade. As far as the experienced tradesman who are out there, I totally agree their skills should be protected and they shouldn't have to go round correcting problems that have been caused by 'have a go' home owners who've seen it dabbled with on one of the makeover programs on TV.

So regulations and licenses in place make a lot of sense... that said, there are also way too many plumbers/builders etc... out there who use bad practices and don't take the care and time to do things right. You've got home owners who'll take more care and do a better job than some 'trade professionals'.

I'm not a sparky by any means, but I know flex cable shouldn't really be buried in plastered walls... so why would a licensed sparky do it??... (I've seen it done many times).

So if it's regulated and there are licenses in place, it's then only fair tradesman are re-tested regularly to try and ensure that the correct practises are being followed in peoples homes.

Regulations are not the answer & neither is re-testing on its own, the real thing which will lift standards & improve the lot of proper plumbing tradespersons is to have effective policing of all the existing ones.
Prosecutions of the public as well as persons selling there services as plumbers when anything is found to not be to the required standard, is the only thing which will send out the message that this is not a d.i.y / sort training job !!

 

[snowhead]

I'm not a sparky by any means, but I know flex cable shouldn't really be buried in plastered walls... so why would a licensed sparky do it??... (I've seen it done many times).

There is nothing in the 17th Regs that prohibits this.

 

[Phillay]

There is nothing in the 17th Regs that prohibits this.

...I must have heard it on some random 'DIY' program then! haha. I know I've seen somewhere B-Standards advise against using flex cable in fixed installations or something like that... but there's the exact reason I wouldn't and shouldn't be giving electrical advice.

...Yet the builder I 'used' to work with put pressure on us to do all sorts, including dabbling in 'minor' electrics. Customers thought our 'Property Maintenance' company had all the skills and trades to do the job, but there lies my point about not all tradesman being up to par.

When I was a complete plumbing novice he had us fitting bathrooms... and he knew even less than me, once asked me "can't we just tee into the heating pipe to get hot water to the bath?".

It's a shame, because there are some really good, experienced guys who have taken years to master their profession and care about their work, yet it's too easy for anyone to just slap 'property maintenance' on the side of a van and on the face of it, customers wouldn't know any different... until it was too late.