Discuss Pro's & Con's in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
- Status
K
kay-jay
pro's - none (just like all the existing bodies. actions would be few and far between. and the enforcers of such a scheme would be all bark and no bite.
cons - another costly membership scheme that forces up the prices of the professional and makes it more attractive for a custard to employ a unqualified unregistered turd.
cons - another costly membership scheme that forces up the prices of the professional and makes it more attractive for a custard to employ a unqualified unregistered turd.
- Messages
- 3,325
From what i cam gather from information read on this site, you guys are in desperate need of some serious regulatory authority.
As for fees we pay @ $300.00 ( Australian Dollars ) for our licensing.
We have to pay insurance on top of that but that depends on turnover and type of work done.
The prices I have seen on this site for what you guys get paid, is lower than it costs to have an employee employed in Australia.
I don't want to sound nasty or arrogant, but, I personally feel that you guys are in a bind with your skills and what you can charge for your skills and experience - or have to charge for your skills and experience to remain competitive.
I have had these thoughts for a long time and have been begging for a thread like this to vent my frustrations for you guys.
As for fees we pay @ $300.00 ( Australian Dollars ) for our licensing.
We have to pay insurance on top of that but that depends on turnover and type of work done.
The prices I have seen on this site for what you guys get paid, is lower than it costs to have an employee employed in Australia.
I don't want to sound nasty or arrogant, but, I personally feel that you guys are in a bind with your skills and what you can charge for your skills and experience - or have to charge for your skills and experience to remain competitive.
I have had these thoughts for a long time and have been begging for a thread like this to vent my frustrations for you guys.
I'm for it so long as they actually had powers and actually enforced the regs.
Let the builders build, the chippy a chip, the sparks stand around all day and the plumbers plumb none of this multi trade jack of all master of none.
Let the builders build, the chippy a chip, the sparks stand around all day and the plumbers plumb none of this multi trade jack of all master of none.
R
Ray Stafford
I wouldn't on both principle and practical grounds.
Principle
This is supposed to be a free country. We regulate the entry and practice of certain professions, like Law, Medicine, Gas work and HGV driving because there are overwhelming public safety reasons for doing so, and therefore the vast majority of the public support those regulations. Whilst there might be a valid argument for putting oil on the same level as gas, I certainly don't see that general plumbing falls into this category, and more importantly, neither does Joe Public.
Practice
I don't believe it would achieve what it sets out to achieve. If the public don't believe regs are necessary, they will simply ignore them, and pay their mate from down the pub. In the unlikely event that you could enforce it, we would then get every other trade, profession and pastime seeking regulatory protection for themselves. I would start a campaign to regulate merchants, to make sure that I didn't have to deal with any new competition.
So every extra £1 you earned because you were a licenced plumber, you would have to spend £2 because you were no longer allowed to do your own carpentry, plastering, tiling etc, or maintain your own vehicle, or even cut your kids hair. The only people who would make money from it would be the regulatory and training agencies.
By far the most valuable thing the government could do is get the HSE to properly prosecute all instances of unsafe and unregistered gas work. If we can't properly enforce our existing regulations, we have no business introducing new ones.
Principle
This is supposed to be a free country. We regulate the entry and practice of certain professions, like Law, Medicine, Gas work and HGV driving because there are overwhelming public safety reasons for doing so, and therefore the vast majority of the public support those regulations. Whilst there might be a valid argument for putting oil on the same level as gas, I certainly don't see that general plumbing falls into this category, and more importantly, neither does Joe Public.
Practice
I don't believe it would achieve what it sets out to achieve. If the public don't believe regs are necessary, they will simply ignore them, and pay their mate from down the pub. In the unlikely event that you could enforce it, we would then get every other trade, profession and pastime seeking regulatory protection for themselves. I would start a campaign to regulate merchants, to make sure that I didn't have to deal with any new competition.
So every extra £1 you earned because you were a licenced plumber, you would have to spend £2 because you were no longer allowed to do your own carpentry, plastering, tiling etc, or maintain your own vehicle, or even cut your kids hair. The only people who would make money from it would be the regulatory and training agencies.
By far the most valuable thing the government could do is get the HSE to properly prosecute all instances of unsafe and unregistered gas work. If we can't properly enforce our existing regulations, we have no business introducing new ones.
- Messages
- 3,325
Sorry Guys,
I didn't get to finish what I wanted to say due to a force of nature.
Massive thunderstorm - power outage, screaming children and... my darling wife....????
I didn't get to finish what I wanted to say due to a force of nature.
Massive thunderstorm - power outage, screaming children and... my darling wife....????
- Messages
- 21,053
What part of Australia? Wifes sister and husband live near Hervey Bay, one niece lives in Brisbane and the other on the Gold Coast.
- Messages
- 3,325
Melbourne.. the sporting capital of the world.
- Messages
- 3,325
Ray,
In response to you post...I would have to say that is the most derogatory post towards plumbers I have seen on this forum.
I honestly thought you had a higher opinion of Plumbers.
I also thought that promoting the qualifications and skills of plumbers might help you and the organisation you work for ( or own? ).
'Trade only' I can only gather from your post that means anyone walking through the door.
Would it not be beneficial to you and the company to promote and elevate the profile of Plumbers?
You mention 'Joe Public' and his thoughts.
Well 'Joe Public' can kiss me where the sun don't shine.
Joe Public can do what he wants, but over here he does plumbing work - in any form - and stuffs up, he will not have insurance cover and be prosecuted.
I hope I have interpreted you post wrong, because if I was one of you regulars, I would show you the same disregard as you have shown the Plumbing Industry.
I think your post is demeaning to the Trade and profession.
Oz Plumber
In response to you post...I would have to say that is the most derogatory post towards plumbers I have seen on this forum.
I honestly thought you had a higher opinion of Plumbers.
I also thought that promoting the qualifications and skills of plumbers might help you and the organisation you work for ( or own? ).
'Trade only' I can only gather from your post that means anyone walking through the door.
Would it not be beneficial to you and the company to promote and elevate the profile of Plumbers?
You mention 'Joe Public' and his thoughts.
Well 'Joe Public' can kiss me where the sun don't shine.
Joe Public can do what he wants, but over here he does plumbing work - in any form - and stuffs up, he will not have insurance cover and be prosecuted.
I hope I have interpreted you post wrong, because if I was one of you regulars, I would show you the same disregard as you have shown the Plumbing Industry.
I think your post is demeaning to the Trade and profession.
Oz Plumber
- Messages
- 21,053
Funny but i didnt read Rays post like that.
R
Ray Stafford
Hi Oz
I'm confused. What did I say that was derogatory?
I have spent almost my entire working life supplying materials to plumbers, and the one thing I can tell you for absolute certain is that there no such thing as an average "plumber". There are a full range of human beings, skilled and less skilled, polite and rude, reliable and haphazard, honest and dishonest, good looking and ugly, who happen to make their living working with pipes, valves, fluids and gases.
You will find me on this board and elsewhere regularly extolling the virtues of hiring a skilled professional.
But the fact that I believe that it is normally better to hire a professional skilled person is a very long way from believing that it should be against the law to make a different choice. Living in a free country is about making choices - including the right to make choices that you or I might disagree with.
Its appropriate for the state to intervene in those choices ONLY when the dangers are potentially catastrophic, which is why we regulate things like pharmaceuticals, firearms and explosives, and regulate trades and professions like medecine and gas fitting. But it is nonsense to compare the negative consequences of unlicenced plumbing with those of unlicenced medical practice.
Its not freedom if people are only free to do what you want.
And if you think that you ought to have the right to introduce regulations against the public will, and that the ordinary man in the street can kiss your bum, then I wish you well, but I prefer to live in a democracy where the laws have the support of the public.
And remember, in plumbing, we are the professionals, and everyone else is "joe public". But what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, so when every other trade and profession seeks to regulate and protect their industry, I presume you will be content to pucker up - because you are Joe Public to them.
Last edited by a moderator:
E
Ermintrude
Be nice if the state did actually intervene? GS have no backbone. Unless your registered they ask you to join and that's it. HSE got no money for investigations or prescriptions so the just make leaflets and smile.
R
Ray Stafford
This is the part that gets me. There is a good case for intervening in enforcing gas safety, but having passed the law, we then dont enforce it. Pathetic.
It's a shame they don't pay for the enforcement through the fines. Some of the fines handed out are stupid. I think I read somebody doing illegal gas work for at least 10 years £5000 it should be 10 times that anybody gas safe would probably pay more over that 10 years registering re-training etc. if it costs £1000 to investigate some one then add that to the fine then they could investigate some more! (Or is that how they do it now?)
- Status
Reply to Pro's & Con's in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
