should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for money?

[Reg Man]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

Years ago, when The Institute of Plumbing was the leading recognised body for the industry, we had to demonstrate that we were suitably qualified to join. This really meant something. Although you were not legally required to be IOP, at least the customer could have better assurance that the plumber they were employing new what the were doing. This all seem to be water'ed down over the year's (excuse the thrase) as registration bodies are competing for business and seem to allow almost anyone to register.

 

[cr0ft]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

My 2 pence. If you run your own business then your business thrives or dies on the quality of your work. Cowboy plumbers are (generally) come in a lot cheaper than fully qualified, registered plumbers who run their businesses properly. Therefore, cowboy plumbers only exist because of unrealistic customers who believe they can get more for less.

The solution? Realistic customers I would say!

Being a qualified plumber myself, I really don't believe most plumbing qualifications are worth their salt. I am relatively inexperienced as plumbers go but I have picked up on gas leaks caused by Gas Safe fitters...

 

[mo7]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

cowboy plubmers are not always cheap.

its difficult for the average customer to know what a job is worth

I am sure there are big variances in rates amongst 'genuine' plumbers.

 

[plumbster3456]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

i agree with what is being said about bodys such as ciphe accepting anyone just to boost there membership and cash for there owners.
i think there should only be one plumbing body for england just like snipef in scotland who only accept timeserved with svq3 ... i dont know what exactly you miss out from full plumbing quallification doing just the level 2 part but why not just do extra work to get level 3?
no wonder all these rougue tradesman shows are always in places like england with some of the practises that go on there.
fair play there are some older guys from years ago who never went to college and are as good as any plumber but these days the law should be changed to only allow any sort of trade qualification would have to have worked for so many years before they can get certificate or call there self a plumber, joiner, brick layer or tiler.

wasnt the cscs / jib card meant to help with this? building sites require them but do the average customer even know that to get one of these that says plumber or advanced plumber etc you would have to have proved your competence with certificates maybe awareness should about this should be more widespread.

 

[tamz]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

i dont know what exactly you miss out from full plumbing quallification doing just the level 2 part but why not just do extra work to get level 3?

NVQ2 is roughly the equivilent to a C&G craft cert and a NVQ3 to Advanced Craft.
When i served my time probably around 80% only did the Craft (3 years) as going back for the 4th year was down to the employer.

Now it is (in Scotland) a standard to do an SVQ3 which is still only 3 years so where has the extra year's study gone? No more 3D trigonometry and Reynolds numbers?
How many can remember how to use /do that?

 

[robinwatson]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

You have to be qualified to do gas work but we still see the pics posted on here an in the mags, the poor work will still be carried out, qualified or not

Qualification/regulation is definitely the way to go. For new entrants, how about a comprehensive 'degree' type course? Paramedics and social workers now both have these in place. Rogue traders should be prosecuted more readily and not be allowed to simple start trading again under a new name, as is the case at the moment. Crazy world!

 

[REDSAW]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

NVQ2 is roughly the equivilent to a C&G craft cert and a NVQ3 to Advanced Craft.
When i served my time probably around 80% only did the Craft (3 years) as going back for the 4th year was down to the employer.

Now it is (in Scotland) a standard to do an SVQ3 which is still only 3 years so where has the extra year's study gone? No more 3D trigonometry and Reynolds numbers?
How many can remember how to use /do that?

cant knock the lads with just the nvq2, it was a choice to get on the tools early and get earning quicker than the boys who wanted to be forman work in the office or sign of the jobs at the time 'sod that'= lets go to the pub.
my point is, if you have a nvq2, gas ticket, work for yourself but get advice or employ help for more complex jobs, then i ask is a plumber with nvq3 working for an employer any better a plumber?.
after all the nvq3 bit covers complex heating systems (open vent & unvented), system design, business skills and gas. if you have your own business this is what you pay others for, it does not mean you are a crapper 'plumber'.

another point of thought,
when you take the school run car in to the local garage for a new set of brakes, do you ask the mechanic to show you his qualifications?.
i can bet a lot of 'back street garages' are not all that qualified on paper and there is no law against it either,

 

[plumbster3456]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

I am not knocking guys with the level 2 thing as before it was explained by tamz i never new what the difference was any one who has went to study at college and got a trade certificate with experience is a plumber just not these guys who only do the college but dont work for a couple of years at least min 2 years should not be allowed to start up plumbing buisinesses as it is false in what the are saying as they dont have the experience to call themselfs a plumber.
This was what this whole thread was about was should the government make it law to protect the public from rogue tradesmen you see on those shows on tv.
I think it is about time there were stricter regulations about what you need to do to call yourself not only a plumber but any other trade that is out there

 

[Bartdude]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

There will always be rogue tradesmen,no matter what is done that won't change. I think the public are better protected and more aware of that than ever,that's down to the publicity and the whole Watchdog/Rogue trader culture,also the internet has had a huge influence,all the information is there for customers if they want to look.

The problem lies with the quality of the training on offer now,it's simply not as good as it was and as a result standards drop accordingly.If it was standardised so that there was one way into the industry,combining good classroom work and proper on the job training things would improve.It's not very likely though,those days seem to have gone and there are too many willing to fill the places on fast track courses.As stated in previous posts it's not the fault of the people who take these courses,and there are lots of good tradesmen produced by the current methods,although I think that's down to the individuals' talents rather than the training.

Would a law help? I'm not so sure,we already have Gas Safe,Oftec,HETAS,CIPHE,WRAS et al and we're having these discussions more than ever,maybe it could be tightened up but if the customers don't heed it and ensure that they employ the right people then how much difference would it make?

By improving the way people are trained the whole industry would benefit and so would customers,start at the source.Easier said than done I'm afraid.

 

[fuzzy]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

no need to bring in a further layer of competence, just tighten up the training and asssessment in the first place and ask that people are qualified. thats were the new quals come in