should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for money?

[tamz]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

Depends how deep your pockets are these days!

 

[shorticus]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

@Tamz, so if someone wanted to fast-track and had the cash how quickly could they qualify?

 

[tamz]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

Haven't a clue. A lot quicker than it took me. Paper qualified and couldn't plumb in a washing machine after 4, 6, 8 weeks?

Personally i think it is a disgrace.

 

[shorticus]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

as I said I'm old school, C&G+advanced craft, took three years and even then I was still called 'the boy' ah such fond memories lol.
I've no idea what the nvq is all about, are there no indentured apprenticeships now?

 

[tamz]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

Yes, for the selected few

Most however see it as a road to riches and career satisfaction and jump in the deep end knowing less than a first year apprentice

 

[Reg Man]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

If Its right or wrong, NVQ is all there is. We can complain that when I did my apprenticeship, I had 3 years craft in plumbing then did 1 Year Advanced in Plumbing and sanitation, then did another year in Gas Oil and solid fuel services. 5 years total. That was the days when investment was available. We covered so much which is not used much today. We covered Lead roofing, Iron barrel work (including the bending) Cast drainage and lots more. In modern Plumbing not many even know what a Pudlock, mole skin or caulking iron is. Why should they? Its a just not used so much. When I first started Plastic did'nt exsist in supply services. Time moves on and lets be proud of what was done in the past, but don't critise the new training and NVQ schemes. A word of caution, Fast track schemes in my view are very bad for our industry.

 

[plumbster3456]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

haha anyone who does a 6 week course or whatever you guys do to fast track are wasting there time. what is wrong with england and these pointless nvq system you got going on.
you cant even do a plumbing course in Scotland without a apprenticeship this is how it should be or at least fast track should take a minimum of 2 years and I would still say its too short to actually learn enough to call yourself a plumber I have been doing plumbing for about 13 -14 years and still dont know it all.
yes you may be good enough to use flexi hoses and plastic push fit on all your jobs but this cant even be described as what real plumbers do except on jobs that A/ THEY ARE NOT EARNING ENOUGH ON IT B/ THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY SNOWED UNDER AND NEED TO DO THE JOB QUICK.

what would actually happen to a guy who done a 6 week / 6 month or even year long plumbing course that comes up against some technical plumbing problem? tell the customer you will be back tomorrow after you chat with your mates on the plumbing forum lol.

this is for anyone who is considering fast tracking yes you can earn good money at plumbing but you will have to be good, fast and highly knowledgeable about all the different systems and problems that can arise and this you cant learn in a year. these are the things you pick up watching your tradesman and going to college over the 4 years and then the 2 to 3 years after your apprenticship is over then my friends you can call yourself a plumber

 

[smudger]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

The NVQ 2 can't be a measure of competence because it only requires proof of very basic plumbing skills. There's no mandatory requirement to prove competence on heating systems, installation of cylinders, installation of storage tanks etc.
If you install a couple of bathrooms, change a couple of soil stacks and do some basic plumbing maintenance you have all the evidence needed to complete the portfolio.

The NVQ 3 is mostly concerned with the planning of works and customer service with two small tasks involving commissioning a heating and hot water system.

There's a huge gap in what's required to become qualified and what's required to do the job.


EDIT: sorry smudger, just read your post which says everything I was trying to say.

Yeah, but you said it much better. I agree with you totally, but I have a problem in that I really want to learn how to do the job properly, but can't find anyone to take me on (I'm mid- 40's), I'm a skilled tiler & general builder but most people would rather take on a (much cheaper) youngster (as would I) or think that I would leave in a year. Therefore, I'm forced to learn as I go. This is not really a problem as I will always try to do the job correctly and I seek advice/help if unsure (or won't take job on). So I'm not sure what the answer is really. I've only been working for a very short time and I've already seen some rubbish.

I would like to see more investment for proper vocational courses (rather than gcse's etc) at schools, so you can choose to do academic or learn a trade at 14, but this would cost money and the gov't would rather just make exams easier and pat themselves on the back for doing such a great job.

 

[smudger]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

Yes, for the selected few

Most however see it as a road to riches and career satisfaction and jump in the deep end knowing less than a first year apprentice

People are wrongly advised that they can go out and make a fortune after a short course, which is rubbish. The NVQ was (is) okay if it is used as part of an "on-the-job" training program over a couple of years. The problem is that other private providers have been allowed to hijack the system and sell the courses which are not fit for purpose (and not what they were intended or designed for).

For my part (I did one of the courses) I know I can't make a fortune from a being a jobbing plumber, too slow and not enough knowledge, and I probably never will have. The difference is that I (and many others) will sacrifice that fortune and do a good job. Yes that may mean I have to go and chat to more experienced people (sometimes on here), but the important thing is that the job is done properly. The problem is with people who just want to make the money and don't really care if the job is done correctly, just do it the quickest way possible, take the money and run. That has nothing to do skill or competance, that is about character, honesty and self-respect. There is no qualification for that.

 

[fuzzy]

Re: should government make it law to be qualified plumber to do plumbing work for mon

People are wrongly advised that they can go out and make a fortune after a short course, which is rubbish. The NVQ was (is) okay if it is used as part of an "on-the-job" training program over a couple of years. The problem is that other private providers have been allowed to hijack the system and sell the courses which are not fit for purpose (and not what they were intended or designed for).

For my part (I did one of the courses) I know I can't make a fortune from a being a jobbing plumber, too slow and not enough knowledge, and I probably never will have. The difference is that I (and many others) will sacrifice that fortune and do a good job. Yes that may mean I have to go and chat to more experienced people (sometimes on here), but the important thing is that the job is done properly. The problem is with people who just want to make the money and don't really care if the job is done correctly, just do it the quickest way possible, take the money and run. That has nothing to do skill or competance, that is about character, honesty and self-respect. There is no qualification for that.

well said